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Obesity: Drink till you drop

economist.com

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Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#41

Post by malkia »

Could that be related somehow with people drinking less and less tap water (I live in US, but also seeing this in my home country Bulgaria)?

I mean nowadays you have to buy your water most places, you might as well get something "better" for that money, and that won't be water - some some kind of beverage, soft drink, etc.

So you would be drinking less, simply because you have to pay (yes, you pay for tap-water too, but that's done as part of all your water usage bill, and it's done at the end of the month usually, and probably way cheaper than bottled water).

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#42

Post by tommizzle »

WilliamLP wrote: post #38
tommizzle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it's pretty common knowledge in the fitness world. I think this quote explains the concept nicely: "The second rule of fat loss is that healthy fat does not make you fat. Excess calories, in particular excess from the wrong calories makes you fat. This is a very hard concept to get across. People still believe that fat makes you fat and will argue without you to the grave while they eat a gallon of low fa…

You're preaching to the choir here. What you're not going to be able to demonstrate is that, in laboratory controlled conditions where literally every calorie is counted by a scientist, and all variables are taken into account (e.g. hyrdation levels) that one kind of calorie leads to a "metabolic advantage" over another and lead to more or less fat loss or gain given adequate protein . This would be a kind of holy gr…

Hah - "obviously" retracted.

From what I've heard most people seem to think that 50 calories are burned per pound of muscle per day, but I think that it's closer to 8? I was under the impression that the repairing of the muscle after workouts is where you burn the majority.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#43

Post by jules »

jacquesm wrote: post #31
wwortiz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it uncommon for European restaurants to bring out another plate/silverware if asked, or just considered bad manners? I'm genuinely curious, but perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. Also I'm curious if doggy bags imply the same connotations where you are from, as here they imply simply bringing leftovers home, although it has been a very long time since I've heard the term doggy bag and am more accustomed…

> Is it uncommon for European restaurants to bring out another plate/silverware if asked, or just considered bad manners? I'd hate to try :) I've never ever seen anybody do that, except for maybe asking for an extra spoon to share a desert. > Also I'm curious if doggy bags imply the same connotations where you are from, as here they imply simply bringing leftovers home, although it has been a very long time since I'v…

As another European I agree. When we eat in a restaurant with my family its almost always the case that for some people the portions will be too big and for others too small. What we sometimes do is we just pick a dish for each person and each of us eats about 1/n'th of each dish, with the people who are more hungry eating more and the others less. I'm not sure if this would be considered bad manners (not that we'd change it, we're tasting n dishes instead of one and having more fun comparing what we like and don't like, especially if the restaurant is good).

I'm pretty sure that taking food with you in a bag is unfortunately considered bad manners :( Asking for a second plate and silver maybe a less so but still.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#44

Post by nitrogen »

carbocation wrote: post #25
shrikant wrote: post #20

Me and the significant other have known this for quite a while. Frankly, I'm REALLY surprised that this wasn't an established scientific result. The way it works IMHO is not too obscure - water fills you up and gives you the impression of being 'full' earlier, so you tend to reduce your regular food intake. Feeling 'fuller' equates to being satiated for a lot of people (including me), so the tendency to chow out at r…

The GI tract is exquisitely sensitive to stretch, which is one of the many "fullness" signals. So it's not unreasonable to guess that this is part of what occurs. The single most likely explanation behind the weight loss is that the consumption of water displaced some portion of calorie consumption, causing participants to eat fewer calories.

Is it also possible that increased water in the bloodstream resulted in less food being stored as fat and/or more fat being used as energy?

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#45

Post by carbocation »

WilliamLP wrote: post #39
carbocation wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "science" behind this is a randomized, controlled trial. Why the scare quotes?

For one thing, though scientific, any conclusion is going to be rather soft if it's drawn from one study where human beings self-report calories, and where the difference in weight (2kg) is within the variance of how much our weight can vary within a single day.

Heh, I agree with you. Sadly those concerns would also be valid for many other RCTs!

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#46

Post by jules »

mgkimsal wrote: post #35
b3b0p wrote: post #28

It would be interesting if restaurants cut the portion sizes in half, kept the same prices, but used higher quality products and better care in preparing. I guess it's wishful thinking.

Just a random anecdote here on portion sizes: Piper's in Raleigh has a really good fish n chips plate - my wife loves it. However, it's an insanely huge portion. $13.95, but it's more than enough for two people (she split it with a friend last time and they couldn't finish it). Dropping the sizes in half and making it $10.95 would still be a good value (well, in line with the rest of their portions, FWICT). The waitr…

Make a sauce for the fish. Here's one that I absolutely love with fish:

Put chopped peppers, onion and garlic with butter in a pan and put it on the stove with a lid. Stir a few times until the peppers get soft. DON'T let anything become brown, turn down the heat. Next put it in a food processor or use a similar device until it's a nice smooth sauce. It can't hurt to process it too long. You don't want bits of pepper skin in it. Next put it back in the pan with a laurel leaf and some cream (optional, but like many sauces and soups, adding some cream makes it taste better) and let it cook for a minute or so. Add salt and pepper to taste.

Goes well with fish and pasta and some parmegiano. Cut the fish in relatively small pieces and mix with the sauce. This hides the fact that it has been reheated.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#47

Post by jules »

WilliamLP wrote: post #39
carbocation wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "science" behind this is a randomized, controlled trial. Why the scare quotes?

For one thing, though scientific, any conclusion is going to be rather soft if it's drawn from one study where human beings self-report calories, and where the difference in weight (2kg) is within the variance of how much our weight can vary within a single day.

Heck, if I go cycling in the morning and don't drink enough I can be 4kg heavier after dinner that day than right after cycling.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#48

Post by chipsy »

Maciek416 wrote: post #3

I'd like to know how much obesity is caused by a structural "finish everything on your plate" problem. By this I mean the tendency of certain folks to finish everything that is served, no matter what their hunger level is. Also, I've heard it said that people who eat from smaller plates will consume fewer calories over time. In the study, the group given water also had their food portions slashed by a substantial amo…

Recently I crossed the country with my parents to visit my grandma. She was born in the 1920s and spent a large part of her childhood in the Lower East Side, so it's quite a culture shock to visit her. In her case, it's not that you have to finish everything on the plate - it's that as soon as you finish one item, you're compelled to try three more. Or in other words, large quantities of food is the only form of hospitality she's really familiar with.

However this strategy arose, all her children have rejected it, which leads me to believe that these sorts of things can change quickly between generations. On the other hand, my parents are still erring on the side of "low-fat" style nutrition, even though I've told them repeatedly that it's been essentially debunked.

I wonder, what bad nutritional advice will I cling to desperately when I'm older?

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#49

Post by samratjp »

Goosey wrote: post #5
Maciek416 wrote: post #3

I'd like to know how much obesity is caused by a structural "finish everything on your plate" problem. By this I mean the tendency of certain folks to finish everything that is served, no matter what their hunger level is. Also, I've heard it said that people who eat from smaller plates will consume fewer calories over time. In the study, the group given water also had their food portions slashed by a substantial amo…

Getting over the cultural teaching that I must eat everything that is served in that sitting was the KEY to my weight loss, personally. I had no real dietary changes. I found that if I just ate slower and stopped when I felt satisfied most meals were nearly twice the size they needed to be. Another upside of this is it is cost effective to grab lunch and have the left overs for dinner (or the reverse)

A big problem with food in America is that High Fructose Corn Syrup is spiked in almost everything frozen and canned foods these days (sure, you may avoid it at home - but not all restaurants are treated equal). The biggest problem with HFCS is eating satiety (or feeling of fullness) is offset considerably.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#50

Post by lars512 »

brownleej wrote: post #21
shrikant wrote: post #20

Me and the significant other have known this for quite a while. Frankly, I'm REALLY surprised that this wasn't an established scientific result. The way it works IMHO is not too obscure - water fills you up and gives you the impression of being 'full' earlier, so you tend to reduce your regular food intake. Feeling 'fuller' equates to being satiated for a lot of people (including me), so the tendency to chow out at r…

In the study, they controlled for caloric intake by giving everyone a limit. This would seem to point toward an effect other than the fact that water makes you eat less. It's possible that the group drinking water actually stayed below their caloric limit, but I didn't see that mentioned in the article.

I imagine it's hard to enforce caloric intake limits effectively. Perhaps people who drank water simply had more success staying within (or close to) the allocated limit.
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