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The Poison We Pick

nymag.com

81–90 of 218 posts

Re: The Poison We Pick

#81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a foolish quote. What can the government do in the face of tens of thousands of people essentially choosing to kill themselves? It could jail them, but our culture is moving towards one where doing that to drug users is frowned upon. So what option does it have? Putting the onus on the government to solve this problem goes against the very essence of this piece. If social fragmentation is truly the caus…

What do you think should be done and by who ? If anyone should do something to resolve the crisis ? (This is not a trick question I am genuinely interested by your response)

Implement a modern social safety net and minimize corporate influence of lawmaking.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#82
post #69
post #23

I've been talking with my brother a lot about this recently, especially as a function of the overall decrease of 'meaning' in the world. I think it goes back even further, to the advent of postmodernism in the throes of World War I. They were the first lost generation, but I don't think they were the last. The death of modernism and the accompanying assault on the bastions of objective meaning (as discussed in the ar…

Only a very disingenuous reading of history would lead to the conclusion that our society is less "objective" than the past. What has been lost is widespread confidence and faith in those institutions that previously served as the pillars of society -- the church, the king and the nobility. Now people are completely on their own for their worldview. What's become abundantly clear is that people are very, very bad at…

In a world without objectivity, perception of objectivity and objectivity are indistinguishable. I was using the word as short hand for those very pillars you're referring to; hence 'religion and jingoism'.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#83
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A fictional world is readily graspable I've been reading "Sapiens" and one of the recurring themes is the idea humanity's success is built on the ability to create useful fictions to bind large groups to a goal or cause. I think we are struggling with that in the first world as we give up religion without a clear replacement fiction that reassures people someone will be there if they get sick and when they die. In a…

Sapiens?

Ha, yes, sorry. Went up a level too high.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#84
post #69
post #23

I've been talking with my brother a lot about this recently, especially as a function of the overall decrease of 'meaning' in the world. I think it goes back even further, to the advent of postmodernism in the throes of World War I. They were the first lost generation, but I don't think they were the last. The death of modernism and the accompanying assault on the bastions of objective meaning (as discussed in the ar…

Only a very disingenuous reading of history would lead to the conclusion that our society is less "objective" than the past. What has been lost is widespread confidence and faith in those institutions that previously served as the pillars of society -- the church, the king and the nobility. Now people are completely on their own for their worldview. What's become abundantly clear is that people are very, very bad at…

It could be that mere freedom from discomfort isn't enough to call life good. Anyway, by what measure is a life spent slaving away for twelve hours on a farm worse than 12 hours spent playing video games? Both seem demeaning to human dignity, and the fact that one was "chosen" and one was (maybe) not is missing the point--both states of being are inflicted from without, whether slavery (wage or actual) or alienation. Both are symptoms of systems that dehumanize.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#85
post #28
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a good development?

Well, it depends on what you believe is the culprit, but the easy scape goats are long debunked at this point. We will some day realize that the psychological situation of income inequality (or other socioeconomic equivalences) is the root of drug epidemics. The sooner that happens, the better, because neither incarceration or isolated treatment can address this. Everyone grows up with different experiences and I thi…

> When you isolate the party people and the lushes, you are left with people who simply feel like they don’t count.

Correct, which is why fixing income inequality will not solve this problem. Giving someone basic income or access to safety nets doesn't give them the meaning derived from earning a living through hard work and creativity, it doesn't bring back all the friends that moved away, it doesn't replace fallen communal institutions or religious identity. In fact, these locales consistently vote against any sort of government intervention which may provide services which suggests that they don't want what you are trying to provide.

A naive solution which might help is formation of a large infrastructure program providing good jobs, consolidation of gutted communities, government funded social spaces and encouragement of community leaders to use them etc.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not clear to me that’s true. What is clear is that I don’t know any US governments willing to test it, because they think they already know what addiction is.

Which parts of GP aren't clearly true? That those countries are smaller, more homogenous, have much more history and common ancestry and culture and community than the US, which is often literally called the "melting pot" [of immigrants from varied backgrounds]?

Not referring to that (which is true), but referring to the next idea that being a melting pot precludes social intervention strategies that treat addiction as a mental health problem instead of a crime, implied by “There is very little of use that can be gained from comparing Scandinavian countries to the US”

That I’m not sure is true, in fact I’m pretty sure it’s false.

Edit: I mean, further up the chain we are saying this method is partly inspired by studying rats! Because Scandinavia has a more homogenous culture we’re too different to learn anything? But Scandinavia can learn from rats?

Re: The Poison We Pick

#87

> We consume 99 percent of the world’s hydrocodone and 81 percent of its oxycodone. this is quite a mouthful and horrid if true. would like to see some sources for this claim

Don't have any sources available, but as an European it's strange how prevalent opioids are in the States for what are seen as "regular" medical interventions. I remember having a discussion with a US redditor, telling him/her that even though I had 3 or 4 teeth extracted during the last 10 or so years I've never been prescribed opioids (the extractions were done by different doctors, in different clinics), I've always managed the post-extraction pains with Nurofen-like drugs and I was quite ok (and I don't think of myself as a particular "pain-resistant" guy, quite the contrary). There were other redditors in the same thread (I remember one from Germany) who had had the same experiences as me. So, all things considered, these numbers don't surprise me at all.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#88
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get injured and not be able to work for a year? Huh, not sure someone with that kind of resume gap is the kind of person that we want to hire. This is often voiced in HN as "a bad hire is a liability", which I mentally translate to "my life has gone so smoothly, I've lost the ability to imagine a life history unlike my own".

The challenge is that a bad hire really is a liability, especially on a small team where the effects aren't diluted and there's little room for waste. How to separate "this person is likely to be a good hire but has had some bad luck in the past" from "this person has had some bad outcomes in the past and is likely to continue to have those bad outcomes if we hire them" is a hard but important question.

I think this is a very reasonable comprehension of the problem. It’s tough. I think caling these thing “bad” is a little more assuming than would be ideal if we intend a fair trial. Many of the things are just things, results of not having a wealthy family, results of not having parents who made your life choices for you and striking out on your first couple tries. These are far from bad things and very often great things

Re: The Poison We Pick

#89
post #23

I've been talking with my brother a lot about this recently, especially as a function of the overall decrease of 'meaning' in the world. I think it goes back even further, to the advent of postmodernism in the throes of World War I. They were the first lost generation, but I don't think they were the last. The death of modernism and the accompanying assault on the bastions of objective meaning (as discussed in the ar…

You may be interested in reading Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, which says (roughly speaking, and after Kierkegaard) that the striving to find a meaning in life is the primary motivating force in the lives of people, and its frustration creates an existential vacuum that leads to boredom, distress, depression, aggression, addiction, and the rest. He would agree that there has been a sort of crisis of meaning since around the middle of the last century, loss of religion and other societal conventions having a lot to do with it.

I think what you regard as "people engaged rabidly in the consumption of fiction" he might interpret as people living passively, bored and confused, abdicating a sense of responsibility for their own lives. I think he is a precursor to the Neil Postman line of cultural criticism, if anyone's looking for more books.

Man's Search for Meaning is a short and compelling book, he describes a way forward that doesn't involve resurgent nationalism or religious fundamentalism, and I've gotten a lot out of it personally.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#90
This whole piece is a good example of how fine writing can hoodwink you. Garbage analysis from start to finish.

"Unlike in Europe, where cities and towns existed long before industrialization, much of America’s heartland has no remaining preindustrial history, given the destruction of Native American societies. The gutting of that industrial backbone — especially as globalization intensified in a country where market forces are least restrained — has been not just an economic fact but a cultural, even spiritual devastation."

From time immemorial, people---especially cultural critics and journalists---have blamed social phenomena on culture, the era's degradation, political changes or something else they are interested in anyway. It flatters you for your command of politics and history: turns out all that stuff you read about because it interests you is actually solidly causative in explaining something important. What a nice coincidence.

I am pretty sure that when the history of this era is written by real social scientists, what they will decide is much more technical and boring...having little to do with the topics that capture our attention for other reasons (manufacturing jobs and trump's election in this case). For example: a bunch of new opioids had been invented, which insurance paid for and doctors prescribed. Large amounts of heroin were available at low prices from increasingly competent and seamless sellers. In what world would these phenomena take place and the amount of addiction not increase?

I used to live in England. There is not as much of a crisis there although there is plenty of economic hardship, loss of manufacturing jobs, etc. The difference is that the NHS won't pay for everybody to load up on a thousand pills, and England is an island where you can't easily smuggle in tons of heroin.

Sometimes the article really veers into the absurd. Consider this passage:

"A huge boom was kick-started by the Civil War, when many states cultivated poppies in order to treat not only the excruciating pain of horrific injuries but endemic dysentery. Booth notes that 10 million opium pills and 2 million ounces of opiates in powder or tinctures were distributed by Union forces. Subsequently, vast numbers of veterans became addicted — the condition became known as “Soldier’s Disease” — and their high became more intense with the developments of morphine and the hypodermic needle. They were joined by millions of wives, sisters, and mothers who, consumed by postwar grief, sought refuge in the obliviating joy that opiates offered."

Right here Sullivan offers a total explanation for why everyone got addicted to painkillers: the government was literally manufacturing them and giving them in massive quantities. But that's not literary enough, so he turns around and fabricates something out of whole cloth:

"the epidemic of the late 1860s and 1870s was probably more widespread, if far less intense, than today’s — a response to the way in which the war tore up settled ways of life, as industrialization transformed the landscape, and as huge social change generated acute emotional distress. This aspect of the epidemic — as a response to mass social and cultural dislocation — was also clear among the working classes in the earlier part of the 19th century in Britain. As small armies of human beings were lured from their accustomed rural environments, with traditions and seasons and community, and thrown into vast new industrialized cities, the psychic stress gave opium an allure not even alcohol could match."

Ah so it was the "psychic stress" of industrialization. So losing manufacturing jobs causes addiction, but also so does gaining them. Interesting that manufacturing jobs are such a powerful explanation in an era when our president is constantly banging on about manufacturing jobs. Suppose we hadn't industrialized at that time; I'm pretty sure people still would have gotten addicted given how many free opiates they were getting. In that case Sullivan probably would have said, "The rural isolation of Americans...the soul-crushing vicissitudes of farming born alone...caused Amercians to take refuge in opiates."

Also worth remembering Andrew Sullivan is serially wrong.

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