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Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

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Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#261

Post by emodendroket »

arkh wrote: post #192
hrktb wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lately, academics seem to be shifting their value proposition to the instillation of this undetectable unmeasurable X-factor. We can't see it, we can't prove that it exists, but it's there, and its value is absolutely incalculable. How convenient for the sales pitch is this. The cost of college forces some people to also argument for better revenue opportunities and better fit for future jobs, because otherwise bur…

> In countries where university are cheaper nobody bats an eye at someone going through the cycles just for the sake of it, purely to learn interesting things. We do. Every year discovering yourself is a year you're not productive. Those cheaper university fees come from taxes which you need employed people to pay. I'd argue the US system is fairer: people who enjoy university education pay for it. In Europe, people…

What about the societal good of having educated, informed citizens? People attending college are not just "discovering themselves."

The unfairness in the US system comes largely from the fact that, depending on what kind of family you come from, college may be very easy for you to attend or very difficult.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#262

Post by tr0ut »

emodendroket wrote: post #259
tr0ut wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So either you're not from the States or you were well funded in your own educational pursuits. Both are fine this, is not a personal attack. It is not hard to find evidence that American university is outrageously expensive. And for what is the average result? You learned the theory/basics of X subject? Or you met cool people and had a good time? I think we're getting to the point that it is not worth it for a common…

Even in the crudest measure, lifetime earnings, going to college still looks pretty good. Getting a tech job in the first place is much easier if you have a degree. This is not to deny that some have managed without it and have done very well, but they walked a harder road to get there.

At what cost? $100k in debt and delayed start at life? Again if all things are equal. Uni is free, sure why not.

This argument is invalid too. We can say most that go to college are better off thus the net positive results.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#263

Post by emodendroket »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #238
vanilla_nut wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I come from a rural area and I feel that college was absolutely worth it for me, even with the huge bill that I had to pay myself. (I graduated fairly recently) College was the first time in my life when I feel like I truly took responsibility for myself, and people generally thought I was a responsible kid growing up. I finally found myself in a place where I could make friends who shared interest…

College was the first time in my life when I feel like I truly took responsibility for myself I often here this but I'm somewhat sceptical. I'm not saying you didn't turn into and adult, rather that you would have done that whether you went to college or not.

Sure, but I probably would have been a different one with very different ideas.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#264

Post by emodendroket »

pharke wrote: post #210
mozumder wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would assume that the rural are rational to the same degree as anyone else, The rural have limited social interaction, leading to a biased worldview.

I've had more social interaction thrust upon me living in a rural community than I have ever been subject to while living in a city. You can't avoid it out in the country due to the fact your neighbours will incessantly invite you to events they are hosting, drop by to see how things are going, ask if you need a hand the second they see you working on something outside, etc. Given a smaller total number of people, th…

I don't take issue with any of this, but there is a higher likelihood that all or most of the people you interact with will have a similar background to you and may not really challenge a lot of your preconceptions. I don't think there's anything wrong with a rural lifestyle, but I do think that college could really enrich a rural person's life, even if that person decided to go back home after he was done.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#265

Post by emodendroket »

tr0ut wrote: post #262
emodendroket wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the crudest measure, lifetime earnings, going to college still looks pretty good. Getting a tech job in the first place is much easier if you have a degree. This is not to deny that some have managed without it and have done very well, but they walked a harder road to get there.

At what cost? $100k in debt and delayed start at life? Again if all things are equal. Uni is free, sure why not. This argument is invalid too. We can say most that go to college are better off thus the net positive results.

I agree that college is too expensive but I don't agree that the answer is to stop letting people go.

You have to weigh the lack of debt and the "head start" against the fact that many doors will be shut to you without a degree.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#266

Post by tr0ut »

emodendroket wrote: post #258
tr0ut wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe so. Besides all the intangibles "Tastes great less filling" etc.. I still believe college/uni prepares you to work. Sorry this is an unpopular belief. Certainly we can debate the original inception and intentions of university all the way back to Greeks pontificating too. I digress.. If it did not. Employment would not require it. Because as most have stated above. It was not about preparing for the workfor…

> If it did not. Employment would not require it. That's not so clear. Other theories I've heard include "college is a good proxy for being reasonably intelligent and able to complete a difficult task" (mostly from employers themselves) and the more cynical "college education is a class signifier." I personally would say that college is worthwhile, from a purely work perspective, because it provides the student with…

I can tell you this. We (the company I work for) would not hire you as a programmer. Without a CS degree. Now I'm assuming you did not go back to get a CS degree. If not you have now ruled yourself out of a lot of opportunities. Ultimately for reasons you mentioned which are anecdotal and intangible.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#267

Post by tr0ut »

emodendroket wrote: post #265
tr0ut wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what cost? $100k in debt and delayed start at life? Again if all things are equal. Uni is free, sure why not. This argument is invalid too. We can say most that go to college are better off thus the net positive results.

I agree that college is too expensive but I don't agree that the answer is to stop letting people go. You have to weigh the lack of debt and the "head start" against the fact that many doors will be shut to you without a degree.

Who said stop letting them go?

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#268

Post by hueving »

KamBha wrote: post #59
hueving wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>can you really complain that you're not receiving benefits from systems that are more optimal when people are clustered together Yes. Society should always be doing more than what is cost optimal. Cities are only being focused on right now naturally because that's where the rich people are. It wasn't that long ago that inner cities were quite poor and there were people making excuses like you for not investing in th…

While I agree that the more investment is probably required in rural areas, I think your assertion that the reason why rural areas are being under funded is incorrect. Reality is that more people now live in urban areas[1]. Democracy being what it is, most funding goes to the majority - which are in the city. Add to that that setting up this infrastructure is often not cost effective for a private business (due to a…

>Democracy being what it is, most funding goes to the majority - which are in the city.

Democracy has to be more than two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

It's true that the majority can just vote to line their own pockets and leave the minority in squalor, but that leaves a pretty shitty country leftover. Many of these rural areas look like third-world countries and that's not something us urbanites should be proud of.

Scholarship money disproportionately goes to lower income students, but that doesn't mean we should stop giving them scholarship money.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#269

Post by emodendroket »

tr0ut wrote: post #266
emodendroket wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it did not. Employment would not require it. That's not so clear. Other theories I've heard include "college is a good proxy for being reasonably intelligent and able to complete a difficult task" (mostly from employers themselves) and the more cynical "college education is a class signifier." I personally would say that college is worthwhile, from a purely work perspective, because it provides the student with…

I can tell you this. We (the company I work for) would not hire you as a programmer. Without a CS degree. Now I'm assuming you did not go back to get a CS degree. If not you have now ruled yourself out of a lot of opportunities. Ultimately for reasons you mentioned which are anecdotal and intangible.

Well, that's all well and good. There are plenty of companies who do not feel that way (even though they almost all put a CS degree as a "requirement" in job listings). In fact, I've never encountered my unrelated degree being an obstacle. I have no idea what you mean about ruling myself out of a lot of opportunities for "anecdotal and intangible" reasons.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#270

Post by jandrese »

brandmeyer wrote: post #9

"Overall, 59 percent of rural high school grads — white and nonwhite, at every income level — go to college the subsequent fall. That's a lower proportion than the 62 percent of urban and 67 percent of suburban graduates, according to the National Student Clearinghouse, which tracks this." That's not actually all that large of a difference. Its certainly not enough to justify the strong wording in the headline.

That difference seems roughly in line with income levels as well. Inner city and rural communities don't have as much money as the suburbs, and go to college at a lower rate, shocking nobody.
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