From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower • Hacker News Board

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#61

Post by tqkxzugoaupvwqr » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

speedplane wrote: post #35

I was recently reviewing front-end frameworks (i.e., React vs. Angular), and part of the review was looking at Google Trends to get an idea of their relative popularity. I was pretty surprised to see that while React has been gaining on Angular for some time worldwide, it's had remarkable growth in China, where it now surpasses Angular by a wide margin. Certainly seems that China is faster to adopt this technology th…

I think expansion of software / tools into non-English markets is mostly driven by the availability of native language documentation, tutorials, blog posts, etc. The more translated documentation exists, the more the software is used, the more is written about it, the more it is used, etc.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#62

Post by remir » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

I am not American, but I think it's fair to say that America brought the world into "modernity". Telephone, computers, software, the internet, smart devices, these had a huge impact on the world.

To me, the real test of China's innovation will be to see if they can have a true and significant impact on the world.

We often talk about innovation in terms of technological advancements, but we need to also talk about innovation as new methods, new way of thinking.

What does the world need today in 2018? The environment is in peril, the resources are diminishing rapidly, the climate is changing, etc...

Going forward, I believe the most impactful innovations will be the ones who will deal with these huge problems. I sure hope both the US and China can unite their efforts here because in the end, we are all sharing this planet.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#63

Post by dogma1138 » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

tinyrick2 wrote: post #48

tristanj wrote: post #2

This article is missing the key part where China blocked and limited products by major foreign tech giants such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft et al so homegrown Chinese variants could flourish.

Don't you think that by limiting foreign companies' products the local companies would operate less efficiently since there is no competition? I think I was taught about this in my econ 101 class. Why does it work differently this time?

Not necessarily the same things happened also in Russia.

Competition can still happen just locally and while competition is good when the scale is unbalanced it can be just as bad or worse than no competition at all.

Almost no one is developing a Google search competitor because it’s near impossible to do so while people have access to Google the need isn’t there and you can’t compete unless you are actually better there isn’t as much niche to search as people think. You also have the problem of resource imbalance where Google can just go and buy out the local competition at ease due to their wealth this what has happened with dating and P2P commerce sites all over the world.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#64

Post by seanmcdirmid » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

hownottowrite wrote: post #60

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of those CS degrees outside of first and second tier universities are not very good, however. When every foreign language unverisity and teacher’s college (there called normal universities) has a CS department, there is definitely something going on.

> Many of those CS degrees outside of first and second tier universities are not very good, however. Sure, but even if half the total degrees are substandard that's still twice the output of the United States. It's a wave that will only pay more dividends over time. > When every foreign language unverisity and teacher’s college (there called normal universities) has a CS department, there is definitely something goin…

Even the Chinese government admits quality is a problem, I’ll see if I can pull up a CD or GT article I read a few years ago. The CS programs in lower tiered schools are not given many resources, they are often taught programming by teachers who have never programmed before (similar to being taught English by the book by an instructor who can’t speak english, my mother in law did this). It’s not the same as Hoboken liberal arts college teaching CS, it’s more like Scottsdale cooking academy teaching CS (or at least Zhangjiajie Tourism College).

When I was working in china, everyone was complaining about finding programmers that were good enough to hire. You would filter your resume stacks by 1st then 2nd tier universities (throw everything else out), and still had to be very rigorous in interviewing. This was way after the CS education boom happened in the early part of this decade.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#65

Post by aianus » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

geomark wrote: post #54

aianus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China produces stuff I want China produces almost nothing I want unless you count foreign-designed products that happen to be manufactured there under contract. Maybe steel and rare earth metals? I've tried their flagship apps too (WeChat, Alipay, Alibaba, AliExpress) and they are just really awful compared to their Western equivalents. Not just in subjective look-and-feel ways either: the AliExpress signup flow wa…

Curious, what would you consider the western equivalent of AliExpress to be?

Amazon Marketplace or Ebay

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#66

Post by sarcasm_heals » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

What is stopping a sovereign state like China from stealing source code from companies and giving it to its own entrepreneurs? China follows state-run capitalism. It decides who gets what. I'm not just talking trade secrets but rather code bases with millions of lines of code that took hundreds of thousands of person-hours to create and evolve. Also, it would only need to focus all of its resources on cloud infrastructure where companies put all of their eggs in one basket.

China won't start from 0 when it can steal and copy.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#67

Post by dalbasal » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

remir wrote: post #62

I am not American, but I think it's fair to say that America brought the world into "modernity". Telephone, computers, software, the internet, smart devices, these had a huge impact on the world. To me, the real test of China's innovation will be to see if they can have a true and significant impact on the world. We often talk about innovation in terms of technological advancements, but we need to also talk about inn…

In that context, I think you need to consider the US' impact on political norms. It was the first modern democratic republic. Its basic political norms and rights form the most important example of what we know as liberal democracy.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#68

Post by John_KZ » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #33

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #3

There was an article in the WSJ yesterday that called the last 20 years of GE under CEO under Jeff Immelt “success theater” due to the underlying rot. China is a country of “business theater”. They sure look like they’re doing business, lots of factories, tons of people in suits, cargo container ships, etc. But it’s all just a lie. It’s nothing but the 21st century planned economy version of the Soviet Union. It’s no…

For "business theatre" they've made an awful lot of money. Now #1 in the world by ppp gdp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

These threads about China are full of passive-agressive comments, many of which are so delusional it's sad. Yes, China might be a threat. I'm not American but I'm in Europe and if the US empire falls I'll be in trouble too. But people need to man up and face the reality. Yes, China is growing strong, but there's nothing wrong with it. 1,350 Million people now live lives that don't feel like literal hell. That's a good thing in my book, and I can't wait for latin america and more asian countries to take off too. People living healthy happy secure lives is ok, even if it makes some of us over here feel a bit uncomfortable. Not to mention that their rising wages will finally stop the financial stagnation of the west, especially Europe, which is suffering with high unemployemnt due to the competition with the Chinese.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#69

Post by RobertoG » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

tinyrick2 wrote: post #48

tristanj wrote: post #2

This article is missing the key part where China blocked and limited products by major foreign tech giants such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft et al so homegrown Chinese variants could flourish.

Don't you think that by limiting foreign companies' products the local companies would operate less efficiently since there is no competition? I think I was taught about this in my econ 101 class. Why does it work differently this time?

You can't develop an industry from nothing without protection. This is how happened in the USA, protecting nascent industries from others (the UK mainly). It seems that the Chinese are very aware of this historic truth.

The corollary being that, if you are already a developed country, and you want to avoid competition, a good way to do it would be to force, other countries, to "open they markets".

A good book about the subject: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/187808.Kicking_Away_the_...

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#70

Post by harperlee » Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 2:31 PM UTC

dalbasal wrote: post #67

remir wrote: post #62

I am not American, but I think it's fair to say that America brought the world into "modernity". Telephone, computers, software, the internet, smart devices, these had a huge impact on the world. To me, the real test of China's innovation will be to see if they can have a true and significant impact on the world. We often talk about innovation in terms of technological advancements, but we need to also talk about inn…

In that context, I think you need to consider the US' impact on political norms. It was the first modern democratic republic. Its basic political norms and rights form the most important example of what we know as liberal democracy.

Wouldn't that be France, between the French Revolution and Napoleon's regime?