Without pointing a finger, I will say I would be really surprised if this discussion - and HN in general - was not subject to a discourse control by paid state agents (sophisticated trolls) from China and elsewhere. Assuming that it is, what can we learn or do to miting such influences? Asking for independent source to all claims is obviously the first step.
China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
201–210 of 280 posts
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#202Xinjiang is under surveillance for a reason. They have blown up buses and killed thousands. Crime rate among Uyghurs community is also much higher.
That's called a rebellion, and it's rebellion for a very simple reason - cultural genocide by the CCP.
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems to me there is a large public relations push to normalize their authoritarianism in the view of Westerners. Then you hear about bloggers being imprisoned for pointing out corruption according to the government’s own definitions. China’s authoritarianism looks attractive when it’s about infrastructure and efficiency, but the underside of it, the collective silencing and destruction of debate, the “blank spots” i…
> Seems to me there is a large public relations push to normalize their authoritarianism in the view of Westerners. So, bigger than the push to make it appear worse than it is? Because that has been a tactic with any competing nation/enemy du jour of the west for over a century... Not to mention that everything is judged with US-norms and interpreted through US-preferences in all those articles (aside and above the i…
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Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems to me there is a large public relations push to normalize their authoritarianism in the view of Westerners. Then you hear about bloggers being imprisoned for pointing out corruption according to the government’s own definitions. China’s authoritarianism looks attractive when it’s about infrastructure and efficiency, but the underside of it, the collective silencing and destruction of debate, the “blank spots” i…
I wonder if that kind of authoritarianism can already be qualified as fascism. Declared total unity of state, people and industry? Check. Militarism? Check. Indifference to violence? Check. Concentration camps, mass political persecutions, expansionism? All there. When does it cross the line from bad to Hitler?
There's no line between bad and Hitler - the Nazis were bad because (in naïve, coarse terms) they crossed the line between bad and good.
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#205Xinjiang is under surveillance for a reason. They have blown up buses and killed thousands. Crime rate among Uyghurs community is also much higher.
That's called a rebellion, and it's rebellion for a very simple reason - cultural genocide by the CCP.
so I guess you are happy about terrorists killing your families for a 'holy sacrifice'?
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a French citizen, that's a very big risk to take. I speak from experience when I say one tiny mistake (that would be a non-issue in most Western countries) is all it takes to get kicked out of the country, after which they'll deny your Visa for years with no obligation to tell you why. It doesn't matter if you own a house in China, it doesn't matter if you've invested hundreds of thousands/millions throughout your…
> not going to the local police station whenever you stayed at a hotel/switched apartment/stayed at your friends/partners place I've never heard of this and I grew up in China. Can you provide a source?
I think it applies only to foreigners. http://lawandborder.com/temporary-residence-registration-for...
Normally the hotel does it for you.
After getting an apartment here I didn't register for about a month. I had to spend some time at the registry office to get a warning. They said if it happens again there'll be a fine, and if it happens a third time you presumably have to leave the country.
On your arrival/departure form it also says:
"Aliens who do not lodge at hotels, guesthouses or inns shall, within 24 hours (72 hours in rural areas) of entry, go through accomodation registration at local police station.
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The leading surveillance systems in the world aren't in china. It's in britain. It's in the US How do you even measure that? I have no idea what you're are saying means?
With the UK, this is already well known. They have about a camera per 14 people give or take. Post 9-11, in the US it's also spread. Typically it's in really crime-ridden areas where law and order is barely sustainable (yes these exist). The only one I can't comment much on is Russia. Given that they essentially have a dictatorship, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a big program as well. imo the state of the art s…
Aren't most of the cameras in the UK private as well?
Obviously that doesn't mean much but it is different to places like china in that way.
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
1.) Chinese government did this to itself, with the 1.3B population. China only had 500M in 1950, but the communist government condemned birth control and banned imports of contraceptives. 2.) At some point, you can't keep using the excuse "but 1 Billion people" for doing disgusting things. When you harvest prisoners' organs. When you imprison 120,000 minorities in camps. When you build an artificial island to the ho…
1) Absolutely agree, the Chinese government after the war was absolutely horrendous. That, however, is only slightly relevant to the question of what to do today. 2) You can always use the excuse "I don't want a billion people that I care about to go through the hell that is Syria." 3) I don't rule out that possibility at all. I'm just saying the risk that it won't work seems too high given how bad the outcome would…
It's a false dichotomy, as e.g. the prospering former East Bloc countries who are now part of the EU demonstrate.
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#209Without pointing a finger, I will say I would be really surprised if this discussion - and HN in general - was not subject to a discourse control by paid state agents (sophisticated trolls) from China and elsewhere. Assuming that it is, what can we learn or do to miting such influences? Asking for independent source to all claims is obviously the first step.
That is the real problem with the liberty now. And I think liberty is dead under the pile of fake news generated by various parties interested in any issue. From war on terror to democracy and nuclear weapons the "agents" as you called, generates such a perception that we cannot escape, let alone our psychological biases and national, political and religious affiliations -- Welcome to the age of disinformation
Re: China's Xinjiang surveillance is the dystopian future nobody wants
#210Xinjiang is under surveillance for a reason. They have blown up buses and killed thousands. Crime rate among Uyghurs community is also much higher.
I presume you have reliable sources for those claims?
I grew up in China. When I was little, there was a time that if a Uyghurs person get on the bus, everybody else on the bus would get off. Even nowadays people tend to get nervous when they see Uyghurs wandering on street.