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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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381–390 of 417 posts

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#381
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy to report that you are completely wrong about this. The water usage is almost a 10x difference and the power usage of handwashing is 2/3 more: "A European study comparing hand washing to machine dish washing found that hand washers used as much as 27 gallons of water and 2.5 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of energy to wash 12 place settings, compared with the 4 gallons and 1.5 kWh used by a hyperefficient dishwasher…

27 gallons is over 120 L that's over a tenth of a ton of water I don't believe that figure

Wait until you figure out how much even a low flow shower uses.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#382
post #135
post #91

As good as this will be for the environment and aesthetics, just have to think the bubble tea vendors as well as regular green tea vendors who sell their drinks in sealed containers to be pierced by a sharp straw are not going to be fans of this ban.

Those bubble teas come in a plastic cup with a plastic lid and then they give you a plastic bag too! This will be a big change for a lot of vendors.

They should switch to a paper bag which is biodegradeable.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#383
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those bubble teas come in a plastic cup with a plastic lid and then they give you a plastic bag too! This will be a big change for a lot of vendors.

They should switch to a paper bag which is biodegradeable.

There are biodegradable[1] non traditional-plastic bags too. Might be more expensive in the beginning.

[1]http://biobagusa.com/products/retail-products/

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#384
post #260

I agree for the bags, the cups... but not the straws. I am not going to give steel straws to my kids. They are dangerous (no more walking while drinking), hard to clean, heavy, they can't play with it... But it's not because I use plastic straw that I don't reuse them, a "disposable straw" usually last nearly a week if the are not used with something hard to clean like syrup or milk. As for the bag side of things, we…

Try showing your kid a video of a straw being pulled out of a sea turtle's nose. Assuming they're as sensitive as most kids are, they'll instantly grok what the problem is and refuse to ever use a plastic straw from that point onward.

Just dispose of the straw properly.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge... Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

It's not the 5p, it's charge vs no charge. Consider two scenarios: 1) Bags cost 1p, but now cost 10p. 2) Bags were free, but now cost 1p. I bet that the reduction in bag use would be far greater in scenario 2 than in scenario 1. It's like why a very cheap paid app is disproportionately harder to market than a free app.

There's an example in Dan Ariely's book Predictably Irrational that showed this exact phenomenon.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#386
post #353
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you personally pay this, or is it only a good idea if it’s someone else’s money?

I would happily contribute through taxes.

If you’re happy to contribute already, why bother with all that admin?

“I would love to spare some change, but my hands are tied until the corresponding bill passes the senate.”

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#387
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

water is not the problem. Electricity is. and besides, not everything go in the dish washer. And moreover some the dish washer soap can attack the surface of many things => increasing the need to replace those things...

I think people in California, Cape Town, or various similar locales might disagree with the idea that conserving water is unimportant. How much electricity does a dishwasher really use, anyway?

you're right, while trying to open the eyes of the older poster, I actually closed mine :-( oops

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#388
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in France, the stores starting charging for plastic bags (even before the gov introduced a tax) in the early 2000s, and it dropped to 800 millions back in 2010, from 15 billion in 2003.[1][2] Since 2016 they're completely banned. Glad to see that more countries took similar easy steps. The E.U. is forcing every member country charge for those bags by the end of 2018, and to make sure on average people use less t…

The number of bags used drop is significant, but I wonder how much the volume of plastic used has changed? This is an honest question. I am genuinely curious. Here in California, for example, the 10 cent bags you now pay for are much more robust than the cheap freebies of before, but also clearly use more material in their construction. I would estimate at least 5x-10x the mass per bag of the previous free ones. (I m…

The economist Bryan Caplan wrote about the topic here:

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2017/01/californias_gre....

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronics

I've never, ever, been asked to pay more for a receipt.

have you ever asked for a receipt where one hasn't been offered?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata, but since it was introduced, I've gone from getting a new bag every day (lunch/fresh groceries), to using the same one for pretty much the last 6 months. It was a very noticeable shift to making me think about their use. Buying one because I've forgotten is a rare, and slight annoyance (the price doesn't put me off, it just changes the mental model).

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge... Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

> Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care?

Honestly, yes. Even if people do know that plastic is bad for the environment, they honestly don't care. I might be comparing California oranges to British apples here, so forgive me if this doesn't match your experience but here's a quick summary of what I see.

Back in 2007 San Francisco enacted the beginnings of a City-wide plastic bag ban, banning them and charging 10¢ for paper bags. First at large retailers, then to all retailers by about 2013 IIRC, I might be off a little bit on the time frame.

Here's what happened: I went from seeing plastic bags littered in the streets every day, floating around in the wind, a sight that was incredibly common since as far back as my earliest memories as a kid to not seeing one single plastic bag left on the street in the past 4 or 5 years? Can it still happen? Sure, theoretically, but as the other cities and counties around here started enacting their own ordinances, the chances of that happening were sharply reduced. Now there's a State-wide law that's largely the same.

Now I've also worked in the service industry in the past, and when it comes to disposables, people are pretty liberal about their use. A café I worked at had a refill policy that lasted the whole day if you brought back your cup, but hardly anybody would bring their cup back and we would still give them the refund anyway, but the idea was that would be one less cup+lid to reuse. We would also subtract 10¢ from the price if someone brought their own cup, but still, hardly anyone does.

Even if people were planning to eat in the café, oftentimes they would request to go orders "just in case", which meant more paper/boxes/plastic utensils/whatever. Oh and if you provide those stupid little plastic covers to close up your plastic lid and prevent spilling? Just another crappy piece of plastic. Ice cream shop or cake shop? Expect to go through a lot of wax paper, unnecessarily most of the time, along with paper cups, and either wooden or plastic spoons, not to mention those wooden stirring sticks. Or if you don't make straws readily available, then most of the time, people won't even ask for one, but if you put them right there in front of them, then suddenly you're buying a lot more straws to replace them. All of this is just one-type of business in the city. Go to another place, suddenly you're dealing with disposable chopsticks, or little plastic salsa containers, or some other crap.

This is a city that is considered 1. pretty liberal and conscientious and 2. pretty environmentally friendly, but take a walk in any neighborhood and just note the trash on the ground. Cigarette butts (which incidentally the city charges a 75¢ fee per pack of cigarettes ostensibly to recoup costs from clean up, but is really probably just a double down on sin taxes), broken bottles, any kind of chip bag, bits of sandwich wrapping paper, paper cups from coffee, you name it, it's around. Just not carry-out bags, or if you do see those, it is pretty rare compared to 10 years ago.

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if you taxed/enforced an extra fee collection at the point-of-sale for all of this crap? Or just banned it all outright. It's worth thinking about because obviously people don't really care, and if they don't care here, they probably care even less elsewhere.

Either way, it'll be worth paying attention to what happens in Taiwan from here on out, and in Scotland when their plastic straw ban comes into effect.

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