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From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

wired.co.uk

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real Step Two: Just copy everything.

I guess we really taught them how to copy everything by moving all manufacturing there. Once they could do everything without external help, they would innovate.

Literally. We packed up steel mills, and shipped them there. We can blame it all on Nixon and Kissinger.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#22

It's not too hard! The steps on how it did anyone can follow, given they have the resources! Step One: Have 1/8 of the world's population in a densely populated region. Step Two: Don't actively harm people trying to innovate. Step Three: Wait.

Real Step Two: Just copy everything.

And the article mentions envy as one of possible reactions. Don’t forget about all the western startups when looking for copycats and impostors

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#23
post #15

It's mostly making real stuff, too. The US suffers from ad-based companies, especially Google and Facebook, dominating "tech". YC recognizes this; most newer YC startups are not ad-funded. But it's going to take a while to turn this around. It's like that strange period in the 1990s when 40% of US corporate profits came from financial activities, and every big company had to have a finance subsidiary with a trading d…

It's like that strange period in the 1990s when 40% of US corporate profits came from financial activities, and every big company had to have a finance subsidiary with a trading desk. That's so over.

I realize that you're refering finance activities contribution to the profits of perhaps non-financial firms, but the contribution to GDP from financial services firms has been growing steadily since the 50s and shows no sign of slowing [0].

[0] https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/BL-REB-15342?responsive=y

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#24

It's funny, if an author with a book to peddle repeats the mantra enough times..."China is innovative", it might become true. And yet, what evidence does she raise? "the electronics were assembled in China; almost never were they invented in China" "paying with your smartphone has become the norm" "bikeshare firms" "China has the largest number of unicorns outside the US" Nothing that would define as innovations. Let…

Best example I can think of is DJI. Best in class consumer electronics drone manufacturer and a worldwide brand with high cache.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJI_(company)

Founded by a Chinese engineering student with a personal aeronautics hobby, based in Shenzhen — he's now a billionaire.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#25

It's funny, if an author with a book to peddle repeats the mantra enough times..."China is innovative", it might become true. And yet, what evidence does she raise? "the electronics were assembled in China; almost never were they invented in China" "paying with your smartphone has become the norm" "bikeshare firms" "China has the largest number of unicorns outside the US" Nothing that would define as innovations. Let…

Best example I can think of is DJI. Best in class consumer electronics drone manufacturer and a worldwide brand with high cache. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJI_(company) Founded by a Chinese engineering student with a personal aeronautics hobby, based in Shenzhen — he's now a billionaire.

I would argue drones are mostly commodities at this point.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#26
post #2

This article is missing the key part where China blocked and limited products by major foreign tech giants such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft et al so homegrown Chinese variants could flourish.

Google, M$ and Amazon were not successful when they were not blocked in China.. Amazon China is still not blocked but far behind JD, Alibaba, etc. In some areas like fintech, drones, consumer apps and games China is clearly the leader. If FB is unblocked I doubt it can compete with Tencent at all. Tencent has a higher market cap than FB and understands the Chinese so much more..

> In some areas like fintech, drones, consumer apps and games China is clearly the leader

Maybe vaping/e-cigarette technology too.

> BIS Research estimates that the global electronic cigarette industry will exhibit a growth of over 22.36% (CAGR) from 2015 to 2025, to reach a total market value of $50 Billion by 2025

https://bisresearch.com/industry-report/electronic-cigarette...

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#27

There was an article in the WSJ yesterday that called the last 20 years of GE under CEO under Jeff Immelt “success theater” due to the underlying rot. China is a country of “business theater”. They sure look like they’re doing business, lots of factories, tons of people in suits, cargo container ships, etc. But it’s all just a lie. It’s nothing but the 21st century planned economy version of the Soviet Union. It’s no…

What does totalitarianism have to do with them doing business? China produces stuff I want. And increasingly, China produces stuff China wants. This is business. There will never be a world war again, the US cannot sustain a real war against China at all, it will just use nukes (or China will). Why do Americans fantasize about war so much?!

> China produces stuff I want

China produces almost nothing I want unless you count foreign-designed products that happen to be manufactured there under contract. Maybe steel and rare earth metals?

I've tried their flagship apps too (WeChat, Alipay, Alibaba, AliExpress) and they are just really awful compared to their Western equivalents. Not just in subjective look-and-feel ways either: the AliExpress signup flow was so broken in their iOS app that I had to switch to a web browser to sign up!

That they're useful and popular in China is something that has occurred in spite of their awful tech. More through great business development and exploiting a total lack of entrenched non-tech competition like credit cards, consumer banking, malls, Wal-Mart, etc.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#28
post #16

There was an article in the WSJ yesterday that called the last 20 years of GE under CEO under Jeff Immelt “success theater” due to the underlying rot. China is a country of “business theater”. They sure look like they’re doing business, lots of factories, tons of people in suits, cargo container ships, etc. But it’s all just a lie. It’s nothing but the 21st century planned economy version of the Soviet Union. It’s no…

You seem to think china is one massive block of people all thinking the same. Being there at the present time, i see a society full of very independant, almost libertarian people, very hard to govern, that are thriving to do business, from 1-shop man to big businessmen. And the young generation ( My feeling is that if a war should happen it will be a civil war between China government and chineese people, maybe once…

It seems that whenever there's a conflict between a segment of the population in China and the government, the government always wins. The Tiananmen Square protests didn't lead to democracy, Hong Kong protests don't change anything, Tibet and Xinjiang are still suppressed, Taiwan is still bullied, Gui Minhai is still secretly imprisoned and probably tortured, and any foreign web site that reports on any of this is banned in China.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#29

There is nothing obviously wrong with copying things and nothing obvious right with "inventing" them first. DOS was not first but beat CPM. Microsoft even went on to PROMOTE its "fast follower" modus operandi. VC's seeking exits have very sound reasons for wanting something "first" and preferably "license protected." But those wins do not obviously confer to either nation states or even all industries or companies. M…

Maybe not pure delusions! But I think you’re otherwise right. It’s slow to penetrate post-modern perspectives, so much that pointing it out seems to only confuse and slow us down. I think it’s sad. At this point, an American with the lab:factory perspective is met with a set of industries and personnel perfectly trained to that model, and scarce resources to undermine it if they choose to go against the grain (See Tesla’s uphill battles in manufacturing, not an isolated or perfect example but fits). We’re also likely to be surrounded with success stories of that model.

But, like you say, there is another way. It’s pretty tough to see the benefit of not looking for it, especially when comparing the pace of the outsourcing model. But, we ironically installed the artisan model in our nation’s individualist “doer” image of itself and spend a lot of effort talking around it. It’s proven time and time again in stories of history, art and innovation but it’s just a matter of a pendulum swing.

Re: From imitation to innovation: How China became a tech superpower

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does totalitarianism have to do with them doing business? China produces stuff I want. And increasingly, China produces stuff China wants. This is business. There will never be a world war again, the US cannot sustain a real war against China at all, it will just use nukes (or China will). Why do Americans fantasize about war so much?!

> China produces stuff I want China produces almost nothing I want unless you count foreign-designed products that happen to be manufactured there under contract. Maybe steel and rare earth metals? I've tried their flagship apps too (WeChat, Alipay, Alibaba, AliExpress) and they are just really awful compared to their Western equivalents. Not just in subjective look-and-feel ways either: the AliExpress signup flow wa…

IMHO wechat is light years ahead of any other competitor (western or chinese) in UX and the smoothness of its functionality.
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