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Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

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Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#141

Post by BenjiWiebe »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #140
IntronExon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even an 30min from one of the 10 biggest cities on the USA, broadband is still unavailable to a majority, ambulance times are in hours, and school funding is increasingly disappearing. The first claim seems unlikely, unless that’s 30 minutes at the speed of sound. I’d need solid citations to bite. The second seems unlikely as well, and given how bad response times can be in disadvantaged parts of cities, I’d wonder i…

I live in Central Kansas. We have 6Mbps top speed available. ~15 minutes away, they have 40Mbps, with gigabit coming in. ~15 minutes the other direction, you have satellite, or...... satellite. Cell service is too poor to use it for general purpose internet, DSL doesn't go that far from town, and the Pixius tower (10Mbps) is just out of range. And there are people who live there too.

Derp. I should've actually read what I was replying to. We definitely aren't thirty minutes from a top 10 city... Just a small town to most of you city dwellers. :)

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#142

Post by skookumchuck »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

> cheating

I've noticed a strong correlation between college cheaters and those who do the minimum work possible, and people who later complain that their jobs were outsourced.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#143

Post by leetcrew »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #135
vanilla_nut wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I come from a rural area and I feel that college was absolutely worth it for me, even with the huge bill that I had to pay myself. (I graduated fairly recently) College was the first time in my life when I feel like I truly took responsibility for myself, and people generally thought I was a responsible kid growing up. I finally found myself in a place where I could make friends who shared interest…

> It's important to keep in mind that college is meant to enrich people as individuals, not explicitly prepare them for jobs. Technical/vocational schools are for job prep. The more college is shown to be failing the job market, the more I hear this argument. Are people who don't go to college less enriched individuals? Lately, academics seem to be shifting their value proposition to the instillation of this undetect…

the idea that literally everyone should go / would benefit from going to college is definitely wrong and harmful, but there are some special things about college for those who take advantage.

college is probably the only time in your life that an entire team of domain experts will be obligated to take time out of their day to meet with you and answer your questions, however silly or low-level they may be.

as a professor, college is one of the only places where you can get paid to work on things that not only have no near-term value, but likely will never have any practical value at all! (I guess this could also be an argument against college...)

I do think there is a problem with the way people understand college. outside of a couple majors (ie computer science), college should really be considered something like a luxury good. it isn't economic in the sense of dollars, cents, and balance sheets, but something that has it's own intrinsic value for those who take advantage of it (a distinct minority of undergrad students).

disclaimer: I think I am one of these people who college is mostly wasted on. I don't go to office hours, participate in clubs, or really do anything other than really good work on programming assignments and cramming for exams. I'm mostly in it for the piece of paper.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#144

Post by phil248 »

nugi wrote: post #6

The world continues to focus on cities, while the rest of the people are left behind. I notice a clear metropolitan bias on HN, often incredulous that 1st world citizens are still living in a unimproved state. Even an 30min from one of the 10 biggest cities on the USA, broadband is still unavailable to a majority, ambulance times are in hours, and school funding is increasingly disappearing. Please keep in your minds…

I'm not sure how to sympathize with people in rural areas lacking services when they relentlessly vote for anti-government leadership by very large margins.

If they want the market to provide, they should move closer to the markets.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#145

Post by austincheney »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

> Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education.

This is a serious misunderstanding of what education is or is for. Higher education doesn't exist to provide a skill. That is what trade schools are for. I know this is largely disagreeable for many people on here who learned to program in a university CS program.

Higher education exists to provide the educational background necessary to function in a professional, often corporate, setting. This means things like communications skills, following complex directions, and problem solving. It is a difference between a job of solving for implied tasks versus a job where everything is a directed task and nothing more is expected.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#146

Post by skookumchuck »

bernardino wrote: post #139
throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

This comes at, I think, a critical point for me. In short, I spent four years at a community college (completing my associate degree in CS and exhausting almost all the courses I found interesting i.e. Mysticism, Writing Short Fiction, etc), and now in the fall I'm planning to attend San Francisco State University for CS. A few old high school friends, who attend Berkeley (one just graduated and is starting work in f…

Whatever school you choose to attend, take the hard courses in your major. That's where the best professors will be, and the best students, and hence your best opportunity to learn the most.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#147

Post by Something1234 »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #125
hermitdev wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me preface by: I don't mean to offend, but I think your perception is fundamentally wrong. Rural folk don't want help from your "our" because their situation is different than yours. What works for major metropolitan areas doesn't work for small or rural schools. In an area where likely career paths involve working on or inheriting the family farm or ranch, more urban-centric curricula don't make sense. It's not…

Thank you, this is more in keeping with what I meant (though I might have done a clearer job saying it.) The place I have in mind is admittedly denser than what you describe, and is in many ways the worst of both worlds, but I think the lessons are similar. My home town is one of two 20,000 person towns in a 1000mi^2 county of 120k. Any time you have the combination of major repairs needed at schools and budget short…

I honestly believe that smartboards reduce the quality of education. The majority of my teachers who have used them didn't teach with rigor. I believe that the use of a board one has to write on forces them to know their material better.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#148

Post by phil248 »

Slansitartop wrote: post #24
forkLding wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, however living and housing costs tend to be low, so relatively speaking, with a not-so-great job, can still have a livable career.

But college costs the same for everyone. On average, I see more expensive cars in the Bay Area than I do in my home state. I suspect that's because they're proportionally cheaper to someone who can afford to live there.

"But college costs the same for everyone"

That's not true in the least. Housing costs make up a huge piece of a degree for most people, and costs vary wildly. I made the dubious decision of going to school in Santa Cruz and San Francisco. My costs would have been cut in half, at least, had I gone to Kansas State.

There's also huge variance in tuition, including public vs private, in-state vs out-of-state. There's federal, state and other grants - they cut my costs by a bunch. And a 2-year degree generally costs a fraction of a 4-year degree.

It is never cheap to be a full time student, but the cost is highly variable.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#149

Post by scottlocklin »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

I don't think college matters much as "job training" for the reasons you say.

The social hierarchy stuff is important though. If none of the credentialist ninnies running the country have ever lived in rural or working class places, well, there's eventually going to be a big disconnect. Wasn't always so; guys like George Kennan were from humble people and places.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#150

Post by gilgoomesh »

austincheney wrote: post #145
throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

> Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. This is a serious misunderstanding of what education is or is for. Higher education doesn't exist to provide a skill. That is what trade schools are for. I know this is largely disagreeable for many people on here who learned to program in a university CS program. Higher education exists to provide the educational backgr…

I know that's what everyone claims but it's an insidious trope that encourages people to trust in a system that lacks measurable benefit. "Don't worry that you'll never use this information. Trust us: we've prepared you in nebulous ways that can't be measured or critiqued."
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