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Retiring Wave

git-wip-us.apache.org

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Re: Retiring Wave

#41

Post by rectang »

tux3 wrote: post #9

While the Apache Foundation hosts a lot of great projects, it also looks to me like a place where big projects go to die. I'm thinking of the whole Apache Open-Office fiasco, among other things. Looking at their list of projects sorted by number of committers[0], event at the top I don't get the idea that most of those have a lot of momentum. Do I just have a completely wrong impression? I'm curious if there's someth…

> Do I just have a completely wrong impression?

You have a completely wrong impression.

Projects in the wild die all the time, and the process is not necessarily neat and tidy.

At the ASF, projects must be actively retired, and there are a sequence of actions which must be taken to move the project into the "Attic". Retirement gives all stakeholders a defined close of business.

All software projects have a life cycle. What is notable about ASF projects is that the end of the life cycle is comparatively orderly.

I wish the Wave folks well as they move on to whatever's next for them.

Re: Retiring Wave

#42

Post by Analemma_ »

I've said this before, but while I know for a lot of people Reader is the axed Google product they miss most, for me it will always be Wave. I know a lot of people didn't get it, and I can't blame them, but I was part of a six-person software team using Wave for a brief project and, despite its faults, it was the greatest communication tool any of us had ever used, and remains so to this day. Slack/Discord/Teams/Trello/whatever still don't come close.

(Which makes it all the more appropriately ironic that it had a bunch of Firefly references and easter eggs inside. It's like they knew.)

Anyway, I'm pouring one out for Wave tonight.

Re: Retiring Wave

#43

Post by liveoneggs »

tedmiston wrote: post #36
liveoneggs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

airflow is too tightly integrated into a single project/requirements.txt for my tastes. It should do less.

Can you explain your position a bit more, like which parts you think would be better decoupled?

I like airflow the dag/re-run/cron stuff but have a project running in py2.7 and one in 3.6, what do I do?

Re: Retiring Wave

#44

Post by sitkack » 

    git clone http://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-wave-android.git
    git clone http://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-wave-docs.git
    git clone http://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-wave.git
Does it even build?

Wave is one of those things that everyone raves about but has never used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBzuuWZPaXc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_UyVmITiYQ

Re: Retiring Wave

#45

Post by randomerr »

Cyberdog wrote: post #33
tux3 wrote: post #9

While the Apache Foundation hosts a lot of great projects, it also looks to me like a place where big projects go to die. I'm thinking of the whole Apache Open-Office fiasco, among other things. Looking at their list of projects sorted by number of committers[0], event at the top I don't get the idea that most of those have a lot of momentum. Do I just have a completely wrong impression? I'm curious if there's someth…

Did Wave ever really live, though? I know it had its vocal fans for whatever reason, but most people never understood what it was, even if they had heard of it and tried to use it (like myself).

Wave was a layer that live on top of a modified Jabber/XMPP chat server. It sent extra meta data to your messaging client. Depending on your client and meta data sent your client could download JavaScipt applets you authorized. The applet would render the meta data into something like an iFrame to show a Google Document or a PacMan game. Also you could create a separate messaging thread from a single comment but still have a link to parent thread (ala #Slack now.)

The branching comments, embedded documents, and ability to create mini applets were the big selling points. But the feature were never well explained and internal implementation was a nightmare. As people could still hook in Jabber with client it was also creating issues with spamming and hacking.

Re: Retiring Wave

#46

Post by fphhotchips »

scrollaway wrote: post #11
tux3 wrote: post #9

While the Apache Foundation hosts a lot of great projects, it also looks to me like a place where big projects go to die. I'm thinking of the whole Apache Open-Office fiasco, among other things. Looking at their list of projects sorted by number of committers[0], event at the top I don't get the idea that most of those have a lot of momentum. Do I just have a completely wrong impression? I'm curious if there's someth…

Yeah, no, your impression is correct. Apache is and always has been a bit of an open source graveyard. There's counter-examples but even they have me worried. Airflow, originating from AirBNB, is now Apache Airflow: https://github.com/apache/incubator-airflow -- And I've been super hesitant to throw weight at it because of that, even though it looks actively maintained.

That's partially because of the ecosystem it plays in. Plenty of people who won't touch a Hadoop/Big Data ecosystem tool unless it has 'Apache' in front of it.

Re: Retiring Wave

#47

Post by fphhotchips »

jacquesm wrote: post #19
rlglwx wrote: post #10

I wonder if Wave and Reader are hanging out in heaven somewhere.

Nobody misses wave, lots of people miss reader. You can take the number of reader re-launches after Google shuttered it as proof of that.

I miss what Wave could have been. Some of the core ideas had promise, but never really quite hit the mark.

Re: Retiring Wave

#48

Post by jacquesm »

fphhotchips wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody misses wave, lots of people miss reader. You can take the number of reader re-launches after Google shuttered it as proof of that.

I miss what Wave could have been . Some of the core ideas had promise, but never really quite hit the mark.

Yes, that's true. But even at the time Google had a reputation for throwing a lot of stuff out there and then pulling the rug out from under them if they did not develop traction fast enough and a thing like Wave did not look like it would be a fast grower. So I told myself I'd really get into it if it lasted 5 years. This 'try to not be first' attitude has definitely cost me some opportunities over the years but it has also saved me betting on horses that ended up as also-rans many times.

Re: Retiring Wave

#49

Post by rjurney »

scrollaway wrote: post #11
tux3 wrote: post #9

While the Apache Foundation hosts a lot of great projects, it also looks to me like a place where big projects go to die. I'm thinking of the whole Apache Open-Office fiasco, among other things. Looking at their list of projects sorted by number of committers[0], event at the top I don't get the idea that most of those have a lot of momentum. Do I just have a completely wrong impression? I'm curious if there's someth…

Yeah, no, your impression is correct. Apache is and always has been a bit of an open source graveyard. There's counter-examples but even they have me worried. Airflow, originating from AirBNB, is now Apache Airflow: https://github.com/apache/incubator-airflow -- And I've been super hesitant to throw weight at it because of that, even though it looks actively maintained.

What you are seeing as "dying" is actually "widespread adoption and maturity", only you've moved on because you're "latest and greatest." Nothing wrong with that, but doesn't mean anything has died. Only your interest has.

Re: Retiring Wave

#50

Post by gwbas1c »

I remember doing a deep dive on Wave, specifically because I was interested in trying to figure out what I could build on top of the protocol.

Fundamentally, there was no way to persist the data. The open-source version was little more than a demo.

At that point I realized it was mostly hot air, said so at the wave meet up I was going to, and then stopped paying attention.

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