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Social Problems in Computer Science

jhamrick.mit.edu

1–10 of 25 posts

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#2
Hmm...

I would like to put across a slightly different perspective:

First, I am a guy, I admire people of all races, sexes, abilities, depending on what abilities they show and what achievements they had, that I admire in people

There are quite a few women in my life whom I admire: 1) my mom - she keeps learning new things and is ready to remold her beliefs even when she 60

2) my sister - I am not close to her, but find her inspiring in what she has achieved, used that inspiration in getting my own life on track

3) a colleague - she is super efficient, super smart, extremely capable, would put many men to shame

4) a few seniors in the company I work in who have reached very high positions, some very fast, found their advice and perspectives highly wise.

There is a common pattern among all the women that I admire, they are often simple (and quite often elegant) in how they look and dress, indicating they don't spend as much time on vanity as the average woman.

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Now consider this: two people, forget about their sex:

Person 1 spends more time on activities that help her/him gather information in a field of knowledge(field 1), whether it be through first hand experience, reading books in that field, talking to peers and experts in that field.

because of this she/he will have more information, so when given a task in that field, can try/perform a task with more confidence than one with lesser information or experience in that field.

because she/he will have more confidence about that field, she/he will take up more tasks in the field, continuing a cycle of knowledge accumulation, increase in confidence and taking up tasks.

Now what would be the state of a person 2 who doesn't spend as much time on field 1 and spends time on other fields, be it beauty, sports, parties, gossip, etc?

They will have more confidence in dealing with these other fields than field 1, because that's where they have more knowledge and that will likely continue the cycle of knowledge accumulation, increase in confidence and taking up tasks in that field.

Now its a matter of which field pays more or has opportunities for self-sustainability, not that beauty and social skills have no value, they can even be critical sometimes. But then, everything is relative.

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Of course, we have to keep in mind that women are under the burden of all our collective expectation, that they look good and that they are supposed to look good, from their mothers, sisters, friends, boy friends, husbands. So, please don't consider this as a judgment of women, its just an observation that is applicable, between men, women or between men and women.,

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#3
I think a decent number of people recognize it's something of an issue, especially in corners of the Unix world (at the extreme, folks like rms, Theo De Raadt, and Ulrich Drepper are, uh, rather abrasive), and not only for gender reasons. There are a lot of "write good docs, be friendly to questions" kinds of initiatives floating around, and to pick one example, it's one of the nicer aspects of the Clojure community versus (parts of) the CL community. Not saying it's solved the problem, but I do think recognition that the classic RTFM approach isn't the best has been one of the bigger changes in the open-source community in the past decade. Projects also seem to increasingly write web-pages where the front page tells me what the thing actually is, instead of assuming I must know, which is great.

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#4
"It struck me that I am incredibly lucky to be a student at MIT, where I have never actually encountered blatant sexism. No one has ever groped me."

When you take a look at the author's photo, you realize she's not nearly hot enough to be worth a sexual harassment lawsuit. She's yet another PC narcissist from American academia who's in love with gender wars. Why should we even care?

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#6
"Person A: I need to reinstall this computer with Debian, but I don’t have a CD or DVD burner or any flash media. I’m not sure if I have any other options. Could you help me? Person B: I don’t have time. Just use PXE."

The author is contriving a bullshit situation to make her point. If Person A is unwilling to ask what PXE is for fear of looking stupid, then they sure as shit aren't going to explicitly ask for help. Person A is only asking for help because she made them ask for help. That doesn't make any sense. If the problem here is communication like she says it is, she could at least provide a realistic communication scenario. How that conversation really went down:

Person A: I need to reinstall this computer with Debian, but I don’t have a CD or DVD burner or any flash media.

Person B: Just use PXE.

Oh snap. Now Person B seems like less of a complete asshole. He just thinks he's being asked an information question, not a request for ongoing help and support. The author is right, there is a communication problem. And she's part of it.

"Do you see what Person B did wrong, here? Person A was asking for help, and clearly does not know about netbooting (or they wouldn’t have asked). Person B assumes they know what PXE is and that they know how to use it, or at least that they can figure it out for themselves."

The only thing Person B did was give Person A enough credit to assume they were on the same level, probably thinking PXE just slipped Person A's mind. Do you get it? Person B's not being elitist. He's being the opposite of that. He's assuming that if you have any further questions, you'll just ask them because you shouldn't feel embarrassed to do so. But more impotantly: WHY THE HELL ARE WE NOT DISCUSSING WHAT PERSON A DID WRONG? If you don't know what PXE is, the solution is not to complain about the vast culture of elitism in the technology industry. The solution is to get over yourself and ask what PXE is.

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#7
> Wouldn’t it be so much better to have more skilled people in computer science, to fix even more bugs and create even more brilliant pieces of software?

Maybe the problem is that in order to have good chances of becoming a good hacker you need to be the kind of guy that will be able to find the BIOS option yourself...

Btw I think that the low number of women in our industry is not related to this issues at all, but to cultural/evolutionary aspects resulting in a woman being not exactly happy with the idea of passing tons of long hours in front of the screen of a computer when in the teenager age range of your life (that is, when 99.99% of people become hackers).

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#8
post #5

A blog on social etiquette and politeness would go a long way, I know I have trouble communication with green engineers. HOW-TO: Being polite? HOW-TO: Say no without being an ass

There are bazillions of books on social skills, but the target audience (in this case) don't read them. The only assumption one can make is that they don't care to learn.

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#9
This observation is hardly new, but computer/tech stuff tends to attract the kind of people who will spend hours delving into the minutiae of an abstract system but don't care to spend much time understanding other people. It's also a common attitude in many free software projects that a working patch is basically the only worthwhile contribution and everything else is noise. That attitude has many benefits but being "welcoming" is not one of them.

Yes, the world would be a nicer place if people were more understanding, kind, and polite. I have yet to hear any realistic plan for making that happen, and the issue of making CS more "accessible" has been a talking point for over a decade with no results.

Re: Social Problems in Computer Science

#10
post #6

"Person A: I need to reinstall this computer with Debian, but I don’t have a CD or DVD burner or any flash media. I’m not sure if I have any other options. Could you help me? Person B: I don’t have time. Just use PXE." The author is contriving a bullshit situation to make her point. If Person A is unwilling to ask what PXE is for fear of looking stupid, then they sure as shit aren't going to explicitly ask for help.…

> The author is contriving a bullshit situation to make her point.

I have been in these situations. They aren't bullshit. When you get a ton of good hackers in one area and a newbie comes in, it's a crapshoot. Nobody wants to hold someone's hand while they stumble around, fucking everything up in the process. "I've got things to do."

It's NOT a bullshit situation.

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