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UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

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Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#41

Post by nwah1 »

When EVs advertize 100 mile range, that means in the best conditions. Heavy loads would reduce that. Cold weather itself can make your range worse, and additionally any kind of heating or AC will reduce range further.

I recently purchased an EV with a "100 mile range," and it so far hasn't achieved higher than a 70 mile range, given the cold weather, even with 100% charge, no climate control, and no real load. Turn on the heat, and suddenly you lose another 20 miles of range.

And it can take ages to charge, with current technology. I don't think this sounds too practical for deliveries, quite yet. But somehow, there are Lyft and Uber drivers who have these.

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#42

Post by MisterTea »

ams6110 wrote: post #27

UPS has an interesting approach to their trucks. They call them "cars" first of all, and they are a custom design. Nobody else can buy them, and when they wear out and they are done using them they crush them. I never really understood why that made sense, when all the other courier companies use Sprinters or some other standard vehicle. They must see it as a competitive advantage.

They destroy them for brand protection. See this comment: http://hankstruckforum.com/htforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=1e65b...

I once saw a heavy wrecker flatbed in the late 00's hauling three ex-ups trucks with standard shift to the scrap yard. They were hastily painted white with a roller to hide the UPS color and logo but you could still see the logo through the shoddy paint job and brown patches along the edges.

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#43

Post by michaelt »

Jakob wrote: post #2

Germany’s Post Office built and used ~2,000 custom-built electric delivery trucks in 2016 and deployed ~10.000 per year since 2017. UPS’s 50 seems very low for 2018 in comparison. One article about them: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-24/even-germ... They are called StreetScooter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

  UPS’s 50 seems very low for 2018 in comparison.
Depending on how your delivery business is structured (customer density, and what type of driver's license your drivers have) your efficiency may be constrained by (a) driving time/distance, (b) vehicle legal curb weight, (c) vehicle reloading time or (d) at-customer delivery time.

If your company is constrained by (a), (b) or (c) current electric vans will make that limiting factor worse. Post offices are mostly constrained by (d) which makes it easier for them to deploy electric vehicles.

None of these problems are insurmountable, but current electric trucks aren't drop-in replacements for diesel trucks.

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#44

Post by oh_sigh »

Jakob wrote: post #2

Germany’s Post Office built and used ~2,000 custom-built electric delivery trucks in 2016 and deployed ~10.000 per year since 2017. UPS’s 50 seems very low for 2018 in comparison. One article about them: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-24/even-germ... They are called StreetScooter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

Keep in mind this is UPS, a private company, and not USPS, the US postal service. The algebra for private companies doing this is different than the government.

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#46

Post by philfrasty »

oh_sigh wrote: post #44
Jakob wrote: post #2

Germany’s Post Office built and used ~2,000 custom-built electric delivery trucks in 2016 and deployed ~10.000 per year since 2017. UPS’s 50 seems very low for 2018 in comparison. One article about them: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-24/even-germ... They are called StreetScooter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StreetScooter

Keep in mind this is UPS, a private company, and not USPS, the US postal service. The algebra for private companies doing this is different than the government.

German „Deutsche Post“ is not a government owned company (any more). Listed on the stock exchange with 80% of the stocks owned by other than state owned entities.

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#47

Post by bdamm »

athenot wrote: post #13
sokoloff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With aggressive driving, it's very easy to move braking loads into the friction brakes, making a 100% loss. Even when you cycle energy out of the battery and back in via regen, there are losses (to heat). Driving carefully in my LEAF, I can get 4.2-4.5 miles per kWh. Driving like an ass, it's easy to get that figure down under 2.

Also get 4.2 miles/KWh here. Maybe they will build in some kind of feedback for the trucks. The leaf has (had) the little trees that appear on the dashboard; maybe UPS can track this and issue a token incentive (free meal, bonus) at the end of the month if the delivery schedule is accomplished with less energy.

Allotting a specific energy cost per mile and then paying the courier the surplus would solve that.

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#48

Post by kalcode »

MisterTea wrote: post #42
ams6110 wrote: post #27

UPS has an interesting approach to their trucks. They call them "cars" first of all, and they are a custom design. Nobody else can buy them, and when they wear out and they are done using them they crush them. I never really understood why that made sense, when all the other courier companies use Sprinters or some other standard vehicle. They must see it as a competitive advantage.

They destroy them for brand protection. See this comment: http://hankstruckforum.com/htforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=1e65b... I once saw a heavy wrecker flatbed in the late 00's hauling three ex-ups trucks with standard shift to the scrap yard. They were hastily painted white with a roller to hide the UPS color and logo but you could still see the logo through the shoddy paint job and brown patches along the edges.

>They destroy them for brand protection. See this comment:

Comment has some sound reasoning why they feel that way.

Curious though, why do you post/take that commen on a forum that was copied from an unnamed forum as fact?

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#49

Post by zaroth »

Speaking of custom built electric delivery vehicles...

I've been thinking of something purpose built to carry only small cargo and no passengers, i.e. 8 cu ft and 100lb total cargo capacity, with a limited range designed to make delivery runs and then return and charge (or maybe just swap power packs).

Nuro [1] is working on something in this vein. I think their vehicle is much too big personally, I would start with something that could carry maybe 30 lbs and 2 cu ft of cargo and scale up from there. While the walking-speed Starship [2] seems like it went too far in the other direction. But it seems like there is space for a cargo-only vehicle that could be extremely useful in the city, particularly if it's an on-demand model where businesses can hail them with an API call.

The question is whether a robot like this--which doesn't carry people but still has to operate on the roadways--does it make the AI problem materially easier to solve?

And in the spirit of fake-it-till-you-make-it, why not launch the service today by paying "operators" to remote control the vehicle over 4G links with just enough software to do collision avoidance and safely pull over if the operator disconnects?

[1] - https://nuro.ai/ [2] - https://www.starship.xyz/

Re: UPS is working on a fleet of 50 custom-built electric delivery trucks

#50

Post by ryanianian »

nwah1 wrote: post #41

When EVs advertize 100 mile range, that means in the best conditions. Heavy loads would reduce that. Cold weather itself can make your range worse, and additionally any kind of heating or AC will reduce range further. I recently purchased an EV with a "100 mile range," and it so far hasn't achieved higher than a 70 mile range, given the cold weather, even with 100% charge, no climate control, and no real load. Turn o…

It probably makes most sense in urban areas where a totally full truck can leave the local depot and fully unload in less than 15 miles. That's the case with my local UPS (in the greater NYC area). Electric vehicles are perfect for this scenario.

(This said I'm sure they'll have to have contingency plans for when the things run out of juice but that's probably the same plan they currently have for accidents or breakdowns)

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