Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#271

Post by maccard » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 9:20 AM UTC

moate wrote: post #236

maccard wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but if the goal is to simply stop speeding, it will stop it on motorways. Whether it has any safety benefits or not is incidental.

Well there's the problem. Why is that a goal. http://www.sehinc.com/news/truth-about-speed-limits-explaine...

Oh sorry - to be clear, I was being a little pedantic about he question the parent mentioned - what is his solution to stopping speeding. I agree that reducing Speed limits (particularly on motorways) isn’t the answer. There are other reasons for it however, eg Ireland [0] is attempting to reduce the speed for environmental reasons.

[0] https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#272

Post by maccard » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #163

akie wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same issue when I was living in Geneva, especially when driving in dense traffic. You'd be on the right lane of a two lane road, and suddenly it turns to the right while the left lane continues on straight. And obviously there'd be no way to quickly go to the left lane anymore because the traffic is severely stuck anyway. So then you end up driving in the wrong direction, still stuck in traffic, and have to…

Don't the street signs give you an indication that a lane branches off?

I’ve a particular junction in mind where there’s no street signage on the junction saying you can’t go straight in the left lane until you’re at the junction (which is around a bend), and he only road markings for it are covered by cars queueing to go straight. Google also gets this particular junction wrong.

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#273

Post by maccard » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 9:24 AM UTC

forgotmypw wrote: post #203

maccard wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really miss lane guidance, for instance Can I ask why? Having driven in both the US and europe and used GMaps in both places, I've found the lane guidance to be borderline useless. For the most part, lanes are intuitive (turning right - right lane), and when they're not, Google often gets them wrong.

Try driving around in New Jersey, especially close to New York. There are some exits, for example, where the exit is two lanes, but one of the lanes splits off from the main lane, but you better be in that left lane because you have to keep left right after you take that right exit... and then take another right after that. Lane guidance is very helpful in these situations.

Sorry I’m nt arguing against lane guidance. My issue is that google gets it wrong in many situations (usually when you need it)

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#274

Post by Aoyagi » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 10:25 AM UTC

mi100hael wrote: post #228

Aoyagi wrote: post #195

Well, too bad they didn't include HERE and especially TomTom... The selection they have is just a bunch of products whose purpose is to provide advertising and harvest data.

Apple is a hardware company that doesn't provide advertising. And I wouldn't buy a TomTom GPS these days... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16257811

Well in Apple's case, it's more of a "how do we keep people in our walled garden"...

I wouldn't buy a TomTom device either, because I've got it in my phone and that's what I was talking about.

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#275

Post by JeffDClark » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 12:33 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #24

I'd like to see a review of how the various navigation apps do in situations with unusually heavy, unusually widespread traffic, such as when people were trying to go home after the 2017 total eclipse in the US. I was using Waze when leaving Madras, Oregon, after the eclipse heading to the Puget Sound area of Washington. It suggested a route that would bypass a couple miles of slow traffic, but the road it sent me do…

I was driving back from South Carolina to Northern Virginia the day after the eclipse. The first hours were uneventful, by the time I hit I-81 things got crazy. I had all 3 nav apps running (Waze, Google, Apple), Waze kept routing me off of the interstate and onto side roads, which in SW Virginia involve quite hilly terrain so are anything but direct. Apple and Google never deviated from the interstate even though the predicted arrival time kept climbing. In the end I took some of Waze's advice but I am not sure that it saved any time. I finally went with my own navigation system, I know that this road (US Rt 29) will eventually get me to where I want to be AND it is not at a standstill. I am sure it took longer, but the drive was way more pleasant. Bottom-line, a drive that normally would take a little more than 8 hours, took 12 hours and no nav app saved the day.

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#276

Post by thinking_errol » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 12:55 PM UTC

Great job, Jonathan! Can't agree more about Waze's creative (and overly optimistic!) guidance and Google's general all-roundedness. Tell y'all a story, but take it with a bunch of salt because I generally resist updating apps and even OS until they stop working, for all the UI "improvements".

Every year, entire Munich traffic grinds to a halt once the first 5 snowflakes hit the ground. I guess the drivers of expensive German cars must be rather afraid to bump their precious new bumpers. Anyway, this is use-case #1 for Waze. It will guide you past the traffic using all nooks and crannies, and one-lane farmer's roads around town. Use-case #2 is reports of accidents AKA traffic police, who will block a major artery for any imaginable reason, past present or future, and for as long as they god damn please.

Now Google, great-and-all. One winter I drove to the nearby mountainous region of Czech Republic, before the EU anti-roaming-fee-law, so I whipped out my corporate phone with super strict mandatory software update policy. I thought I knew Google Maps so I followed the guidance with complete confidence. Half hour into the Republic, the icy serpentine road gets worse by the kilometer, but my SUV would surely handle that as long as I'm patient and careful. Next thing I know, my destination's on the right! But it's only a stop-over and the blue line goes ALL THE WAY BACK the dangerous, unsalted and completely unnecessary road, adding an hour of grief to the already delayed getting-there. I swear I never touched the screen to agree to stop over at that restaurant, the suggestion must have either confirmed itself upon a timeout or the touchscreen must have bumped against something in the compartment under the windshield. And I never heard about Google Maps making suggestions in the middle of a trip anyway. This was the last time I used an up-to-date Google Maps, the old version's just fine, thank you very much. The newer one could have killed my whole family that night.

Alright, I don't hate Google or Munich or even the local police quite as much as I might sound like. Ads are broken though, which means a huge potential for distraction-free marketing.

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#277

Post by dx034 » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

Ambroos wrote: post #216

dx034 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Google also often uses "shortcuts" that send you through residential areas just to save 1 minute. Esp. in the US if there's no interstate anyway. Instead of keeping you on the large road, GMaps often sends you via small (gravel) roads.

Really? I don't see that happening very often here in Belgium. Unless traffic on the main roads is really really bad, I hardly ever get sent through residential areas. (We have an incredibly dense road network though, so main roads are usually significantly faster anyway.)

I rarely encounter it in Europe (although it happened to me in rural England), seems to be mostly US. Probably because speed limits on many small roads are the same as on larger roads and local residents drive at the same speed (which Google uses to calculate trip time).

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#278

Post by Piskvorrr » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

bhandziuk wrote: post #254

mdip wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "yes, now that you've shown me this ad, I would like you to stop the route I'm on now and take me 17 minutes out of my way to go to the nearest Burger King, thanks" is 0%. Oh my is that obnoxious . I'm a daily Waze user, personally, and I find this to be the stupidest dialog the app produces. It pops up every few times you end up stopped at a light -- the moment I want to look at the app to check the route it's sen…

Do you travel around town a lot for work? Why do you use a navigation app when heading home for the day?

The city I live in is not flat, nor rectilinear, nor logically arranged. Therefore, algorithmic traffic modelling is hard, statistical models from previous data aren't reliable, and shift happens. I can visualize the way, or the map, but I only have a very general idea which route is least congested now; enter traffic crowdsourcing, and voila...oh wait, it's all congested anyway, as the other Waze users get rerouted to alternates.

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#279

Post by iainmerrick » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

bdhess wrote: post #267

freehunter wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's insane to my ears. Maybe it's just where I live, but speeding isn't just a fine you pay, it has legal ramifications. It's literally breaking the law. You get points on your license that causes your insurance to go up for years afterward, and after enough points, it causes your license to be taken away. It's not even unheard of for commercial drivers to be fired and not be able to get another job for as few as…

It’s a standard practice in traffic engineering to set limits based on 85th percentile speed of free flowing traffic in good conditions. That apparently tends to produce an optimal speed limit from a crash/mortality perspective, but has the side effect of criminalizing the conduct of 15 percent of motorists. That’s a shockingly high number of otherwise law-abiding people who end up being on the wrong side of the opti…

Do you have a citation for that? It sounds plausible but I bet the real situation is more complicated.

The highway speed limit may be 70mph, say, but from an emissions point of view, for most cars the ideal speed is more like 60mph.

From a safety point of view, the ideal speed will depend largely on traffic conditions. 85mph might be fine in light traffic on a straight road in clear weather in daylight, less so in other conditions. That seems like a good argument for lowballing the speed limit (assuming that you're correct about that).

Re: Apple Maps vs. Google Maps vs. Waze

#280

Post by stephencanon » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

gerdesj wrote: post #255

stephencanon wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think European roundabouts were exciting. Then I went to China.

If you need excitement in Europe, I can recommend anywhere near or in Naples (Napoli) or Rome, Paris, Deutsche Autobahns and most of Eastern Europe and the Balkans. I am aware that European roads as a whole are rather straightforwards compared to some parts (OK most) of the world. For starters we have rules and most of the time they are nearly obeyed. However the rules are often not quite the safe as the official one…

China is a whole different world driving-wise. After I got in a cab in Guangzhou, the driver immediately made a u-turn across 4 lanes of traffic, then drove the wrong way into a 5(?) lane roundabout (explaining "shorter this way"--he would have needed to go almost all they way around in the "correct" direction). No other drivers honked or indicted real surprise with either maneuver.