Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030 • Hacker News Board

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#251

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

moccachino wrote: post #11

randomerr wrote: post #8

The Law of Unintended Consequences will: * Put companies out of business that produce or import said goods * Reducing availability and increasing cost of medical goods that use plastic because the aforementioned companies no longer exist or are importing products * Put pressure on manufactures to use alternate materials (bamboo and glass most likely) causing shortages and rising cost This in the long run is going to…

All the examples you mentioned are preferable to the status quo, with the exception of the NYC soda size cap which is ridiculous (ban the substance or put a limit on the allowable amount in a serving, don't arbitrarily pick a container size and ban it).

According to the article linked, the ban was on any soda over 16 oz. rather than any particular size.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#252

Post by dpark » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

hangonhn wrote: post #230

technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

I'm one of those idiots who always forgets to bring reusable bags but since they passed similar laws in my city, I've cut down on bag use, sometimes just carrying all my items. Laws like that help because groceries no longer assume you want bags. Now you have to make a decision. So even when I do forget and have to buy a bag, I ask for the bare minimum and the clerk just stack my bag as full as possible. In the past,…

Every time I go home to Tennessee to visit family, I’m shocked at how wasteful they are with plastic bags. If you buy a small cart load of groceries/whatever at Wal-Mart, they have a big rotating carousel of bags for the cashier to drop items into and they’ll consistently use every bag slot rather than putting everything into a couple of bags. They’ve sent me home with 6 bags before, each holding only 1 or 2 items.

I’ve had convenience stores try to give me a bag for a candy bar. It’s one item and I’m going to eat it now. What am I going to do with this bag? There’s always a look of confusion when I ask for items not to be bagged. It’s just such a foreign thing.

I’m glad that my city has instituted a bag fee and banned plastic bags. A lot of places don’t actually seem to charge per bag as they’re supposed to, but even so the number of people bringing bags is much higher now and the number of bags used is way lower. And none of them are throwaway plastic.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#253

Post by TomK32 » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

seanalltogether wrote: post #223

jeffffff wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the non-reusable plastic bag ban in austin, tx was a pretty big failure. the problem is that a lot of the big stores (heb in particular) sell heavier "reusable" bags for 25 cents that no one actually reuses. these bags have a significantly larger environmental impact than the disposable bags if they are not actually reused as intended. http://kxan.com/2015/06/10/report-austin-bag-ban-had-uninten...

It's probably not practical to implement something like this city by city, it has to be statewide or countrywide. That link also states a "higher carbon footprint" for the reusable bags if not reused. I believe the core argument for banning disposable bags, straws, etc is because these throwaway items end up on the sides of highways or in rivers and beaches. If ALL of your trash ends up in a landfill instead of out i…

There's a point in having variations of the same idea set into practice because only then the best system can shine and be implemented globally.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#254

Post by preben » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

Are there alternatives to single-use plastic straws? I don't see many multi-use ditos.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#255

Post by dasv » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

cimmanom wrote: post #190

kentosi wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile when I moved here in New York I was shocked at the common practice of "double bagging" where they literally put a plastic bag into another plastic bag. The argument being that 1 bag isn't strong enough.

It's dumb for light items, absolutely. But New Yorkers tend to carry their groceries home in their hands for as far as a mile, instead of wheeling them out in carts to a car trunk and then carrying them 20 feet to the door of the house. Heavy items (liquids and canned goods and stuff like potatoes) WILL tear through plastic bags if not double bagged. The worst offenders are half gallons of milk/juice, which have shar…

At least in Europe, since the introduction of the bag surcharge, the new plastic bags are thicker and much stronger. At most, they get punctured, but I have never had one break open on me.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#256

Post by devy » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

jonwachob91 wrote: post #83

devy wrote: post #79

> “You can use steel products, or edible straws – or maybe you just don’t need to use straws at all,” he said. “There is no inconvenience caused at all.” This is debatable. I've definitely heard dentists recommending using straws to drink sodas to reduce the acidic decay effect on front teeth (basically just prevent the teeth from exposing the to harmful liquids). [1] [1]: https://www.webmd.com/oral-health/news/20050…

Dentist also recommend not drinking soda at all. You're argument also assumes everyone drinks soda all the time.

1. "You're argument" should be "Your argument".

2. No, my argument is not assuming anything - that's why I said "debatable" not "incorrect". At least for some of the soda drinkers like myself, we prefer sipping with a straw - but probably a steel straw preferably now.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#257

Post by dpark » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

sdfasdasfsf wrote: post #176

PakG1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they're biodegradable though? Plastic isn't really.

What is plastic? PE, PTFE, There are microorganisms that eat certain polymers (PE), but I don't think anything will ever eat PTFE (teflon) I'd bet that switching away from teflon frying pans you'll help the environment more than getting rid of a life time of PE bags. F chemistry is super nasty

I bet you won’t. The amount of PTFE consumed by the typical person is minuscule compared to the amount of PE they use. People buy Teflon pans maybe once every decade. They buy more PE with a single bottle of soda.

For that matter, most people probably have more PTFE in their plumbing than stored in their kitchen cabinets.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#258

Post by oh_sigh » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

monk_e_boy wrote: post #209

kodablah wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if they threw you in jail for it. I bet you'd think even harder and we'd definitely get rid of plastic bags.

Same idea for guns. Buy back guns for $10,000 each. Soon have guns under control and off the streets. People would be breaking into each others houses to sell them.

That would cost $3T if everyone turned their guns in.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#259

Post by dpark » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #220

danans wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But on the recycling side, they are spectacularly inefficient All the more reason to ban them outright isn't it?

Good thought. But the ecological (read: CO2) impact of paper bags and even cloth ones, are they clearly superior? I doubt it. Its just so dang cheap to make a WalMart bag. I see 'ban the bag!' as eco-theatre.

I cannot imagine that the ecological impact of a canvas bag that gets reused hundreds of times is higher than hundreds of plastic bags that get used once.

CO2 production is also not the only impact. How much canvas is floating in the ocean and clogging up rivers?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#260

Post by kuon » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

I agree for the bags, the cups... but not the straws. I am not going to give steel straws to my kids. They are dangerous (no more walking while drinking), hard to clean, heavy, they can't play with it... But it's not because I use plastic straw that I don't reuse them, a "disposable straw" usually last nearly a week if the are not used with something hard to clean like syrup or milk.

As for the bag side of things, we use PET bags [1] here in Switzerland, which lasts between 6 months and a year. They where even available for free at some point. Not even mentioning the environment, those bags are highly superior to plastic bags, bigger, easier to handle and much more robust.

[1]: https://img.coopathome.ch/produkte/880_880/RGB/1012284_001.j...