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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#41

Post by emodendroket »

oldcynic wrote: post #37
Fifer82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have about 20 pound worth of bags in the cupboard gathering dust, 5p doesn't make a difference. They should make it £1 in the UK from now and £5 from 2020. That will make a dent. 2030 is the same as saying "Lets kick the can down the road".

That's broadly where I'd go with plastic bottles - £1 deposit, rising to £5 and compel supermarkets and manufacturers to take the returns. I'm old enough to remember the 20p(?) deposit on glass bottles of fizzy pop. Also when supermarkets were selling milk in glass bottles - and provided crates in the same section for customers to return the empties. This used to be a solved problem.

I think the idea of loss aversion suggests that people would be more likely to avoid taking a bag at the time than they would be to return them for a deposit (not that this is an option with bottles).

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#43

Post by erispoe »

randomerr wrote: post #8

The Law of Unintended Consequences will: * Put companies out of business that produce or import said goods * Reducing availability and increasing cost of medical goods that use plastic because the aforementioned companies no longer exist or are importing products * Put pressure on manufactures to use alternate materials (bamboo and glass most likely) causing shortages and rising cost This in the long run is going to…

> Soda Tax in New York that made people go to New Jersey: > https://nypost.com/2014/06/26/highest-court-in-ny-refuses-to....

This article doesn't say that. How many people would pay a toll/transit fare and spend an hour on the road both way to get a larger soda?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#44

Post by emodendroket »

jimmaswell wrote: post #40
Sharlin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, modern dishwashers use less water per washing cycle than it takes to fill the kitchen basin for handwashing.

Fill the basin? You don't just scrub each dish with a damp sponge spotted with dish soap then rinse it?

A lot of people do it that way. Anyway I rinse the dishes but I'm not sure I'm using less water that way.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#45

Post by 4ndr3vv »

mbid wrote: post #31
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

Honest question: How many plastic straws do you have to save to offset the CO2 cost of building a steel straw? Also, are paper straws really better, CO2-wise?

Full carbon costs are extremely hard to calculate, and kind of miss the point of this intervention. An better question is "What happens to different types of straws when they reach the end of their useful life".

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#46

Post by tonylemesmer »

emodendroket wrote: post #24
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

I've read that a dishwasher is less wasteful than hand-washing of dishes (perhaps this isn't true for people who are very, very scrupulous about their use of water while washing dishes, but that's not most of us).

Depends on the dishwasher setting used and number of place settings being washed of course. [0]

[0] PDF https://web.archive.org/web/20091109165849/http://efficient-...

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#48

Post by bluGill »

emodendroket wrote: post #24
rubenbe wrote: post #6

I recently bought a set of reusable stainless steel straws. They were expensive, but have a timeless "design" and have a build quality that gives the impression they will last a lifetime. When dirty I throw them in the dishwasher with the other cutleries. They don't take any space in the washer so cleaning them is essentially "free". (Making abstraction of the ecological cost of a dishwasher.)

I've read that a dishwasher is less wasteful than hand-washing of dishes (perhaps this isn't true for people who are very, very scrupulous about their use of water while washing dishes, but that's not most of us).

Assuming you use the dishwasher correctly: you don't overload it, You don't run it too empty, and you don't pre-wash/rinse your dishes. Fail either of the above and a dishwaser uses more water.

When you overload the dishwasher things don't get clean and then you wash by hand afterwards (in the case of pots/pans this might still be less water use just because when hand washing you are likely to drain the filthy water half way through)

I've seen people who scrub the food off by hand under running water before putting it in the dish washer - they are clearly using more water since hand washing plus rinsing the soap off is using less water than they use for the rood rinse.

That said, I would not expect a dishwasher can actually wash the inside of your straws so that is one of the things that should be reserved for hand washing. If you use a minimal amount of water in your wash sink, and a minimal amount of rinse water hand washing can be a low water use thing. Most people leave the water running for longer than they need to for rinsing and this wastes a lot of water.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#49

Post by technofiend »

randomerr wrote: post #8

The Law of Unintended Consequences will: * Put companies out of business that produce or import said goods * Reducing availability and increasing cost of medical goods that use plastic because the aforementioned companies no longer exist or are importing products * Put pressure on manufactures to use alternate materials (bamboo and glass most likely) causing shortages and rising cost This in the long run is going to…

You're painting with a pretty broad brush and ignoring any positive outcomes. Neither of us predicted that when Hollywood studios raised rates on Netflix it would trigger Netflix to become a very successful content producer on their own and that the chain of consequences would see an online bookseller nominated for Emmys and Golden Globes.

Neither did either of us predict that Microsoft's Apple investment driven only by the fear of potentially more regulatory oversight after destroying their competition would trigger Apple's revolution of cellphone market and yield a company so successful it is sitting on billions in cash. Neither of us predicted those things because if we had we'd have put every penny into their respective stocks and neither of us would be wasting time on Hacker News. So (neither of us being millionaires aside) don't assume all outcomes from the law of unintended consequences are negative.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#50

Post by abakker »

emodendroket wrote: post #41
oldcynic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's broadly where I'd go with plastic bottles - £1 deposit, rising to £5 and compel supermarkets and manufacturers to take the returns. I'm old enough to remember the 20p(?) deposit on glass bottles of fizzy pop. Also when supermarkets were selling milk in glass bottles - and provided crates in the same section for customers to return the empties. This used to be a solved problem.

I think the idea of loss aversion suggests that people would be more likely to avoid taking a bag at the time than they would be to return them for a deposit (not that this is an option with bottles).

I really want a deposit/membership at my local grocery store for reusable bags. I don't want to remember them. I want to use some standard, reusable ones at the store, and then be able to return them in bulk for my deposit back. I end up taking paper bags in SF because I constantly forget to bring reusable ones, despite having dozens at home.
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