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What to care about in a job

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Re: What to care about in a job

#41

Post by jjevanoorschot »

expertentipp wrote: post #6
waytogo wrote: post #3

Wrong question, wrong perspective. Even the very best jobs where everything seems to be perfect still have significant setbacks because of the nature of a job: - Employees suffer from one single dependency which can make their live miserable—their manager; just compare: Entrepreneurs should be independent and build as many options as possible (e.g. not just one client but many) - A job locks you in, means all side ac…

> seamless job transitions with no gaps, min 2 years at one job, steady growth re titles, headcount, responsibilities > Getting jobs and being an employee has opportunities, it's easy for many in our industry to get 200K+ salaries but the price is high: reducing your options until you hit a depression. This is not how it works in most of the EU, in particular DE/IT/AT/CH. There they value loyalty the most and they as…

I am not sure how well this generalises over the entire EU. My experience in the Netherlands is that job hopping occurs frequently and is a great way to get on a higher salary. However, I do agree that there is a salary cap around 70-80k for software engineers. If you want to earn more than that you either need to go into management or move to a better paying region (US/Ireland/UK).

Re: What to care about in a job

#42

Post by skgoa »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #17
waytogo wrote: post #3

Wrong question, wrong perspective. Even the very best jobs where everything seems to be perfect still have significant setbacks because of the nature of a job: - Employees suffer from one single dependency which can make their live miserable—their manager; just compare: Entrepreneurs should be independent and build as many options as possible (e.g. not just one client but many) - A job locks you in, means all side ac…

"Getting jobs and being an employee has opportunities, it's easy for many in our industry to get 200K+ salaries" I wish we would stop repeating this, like it is some kind of universal truth. It might be easy for tech workers living in specific parts of the US, it is simply not true for the vast majority of their collegues in other parts of the world.

Also, it only applies to a tiny minority of "tech" sub-fields. A lot of "tech industry" employees are nowhere close to getting those salaries.

Re: What to care about in a job

#43

Post by carlmr »

waytogo wrote: post #3

Wrong question, wrong perspective. Even the very best jobs where everything seems to be perfect still have significant setbacks because of the nature of a job: - Employees suffer from one single dependency which can make their live miserable—their manager; just compare: Entrepreneurs should be independent and build as many options as possible (e.g. not just one client but many) - A job locks you in, means all side ac…

What's the best way to transition from employee to entrepreneur?

Re: What to care about in a job

#44

Post by badpun »

jjevanoorschot wrote: post #41
expertentipp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seamless job transitions with no gaps, min 2 years at one job, steady growth re titles, headcount, responsibilities > Getting jobs and being an employee has opportunities, it's easy for many in our industry to get 200K+ salaries but the price is high: reducing your options until you hit a depression. This is not how it works in most of the EU, in particular DE/IT/AT/CH. There they value loyalty the most and they as…

I am not sure how well this generalises over the entire EU. My experience in the Netherlands is that job hopping occurs frequently and is a great way to get on a higher salary. However, I do agree that there is a salary cap around 70-80k for software engineers. If you want to earn more than that you either need to go into management or move to a better paying region (US/Ireland/UK).

Or go contracting. I've been contacted about 500-600 EUR/day contracts in Amsterdam. Not sure how common they are, but the option is there.

Re: What to care about in a job

#45

Post by rerx »

jjevanoorschot wrote: post #41
expertentipp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seamless job transitions with no gaps, min 2 years at one job, steady growth re titles, headcount, responsibilities > Getting jobs and being an employee has opportunities, it's easy for many in our industry to get 200K+ salaries but the price is high: reducing your options until you hit a depression. This is not how it works in most of the EU, in particular DE/IT/AT/CH. There they value loyalty the most and they as…

I am not sure how well this generalises over the entire EU. My experience in the Netherlands is that job hopping occurs frequently and is a great way to get on a higher salary. However, I do agree that there is a salary cap around 70-80k for software engineers. If you want to earn more than that you either need to go into management or move to a better paying region (US/Ireland/UK).

I can't assess the validity of these numbers, but, according to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google Munich make 105k to 120k base salary.

https://www.glassdoor.de/Gehalt/Google-Senior-Software-Engin...

Re: What to care about in a job

#46

Post by jjevanoorschot »

rerx wrote: post #45
jjevanoorschot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how well this generalises over the entire EU. My experience in the Netherlands is that job hopping occurs frequently and is a great way to get on a higher salary. However, I do agree that there is a salary cap around 70-80k for software engineers. If you want to earn more than that you either need to go into management or move to a better paying region (US/Ireland/UK).

I can't assess the validity of these numbers, but, according to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google Munich make 105k to 120k base salary. https://www.glassdoor.de/Gehalt/Google-Senior-Software-Engin...

Oh for sure! But those numbers will be difficult to find in The Netherlands. Switzerland has the highest paying software engineering jobs in Europe AFAIK.

Re: What to care about in a job

#47

Post by jjevanoorschot »

badpun wrote: post #44
jjevanoorschot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how well this generalises over the entire EU. My experience in the Netherlands is that job hopping occurs frequently and is a great way to get on a higher salary. However, I do agree that there is a salary cap around 70-80k for software engineers. If you want to earn more than that you either need to go into management or move to a better paying region (US/Ireland/UK).

Or go contracting. I've been contacted about 500-600 EUR/day contracts in Amsterdam. Not sure how common they are, but the option is there.

Interesting, I had not taken that into account. Maybe something I'd consider a few years down the line.

Re: What to care about in a job

#48

Post by scarface74 »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #17
waytogo wrote: post #3

Wrong question, wrong perspective. Even the very best jobs where everything seems to be perfect still have significant setbacks because of the nature of a job: - Employees suffer from one single dependency which can make their live miserable—their manager; just compare: Entrepreneurs should be independent and build as many options as possible (e.g. not just one client but many) - A job locks you in, means all side ac…

"Getting jobs and being an employee has opportunities, it's easy for many in our industry to get 200K+ salaries" I wish we would stop repeating this, like it is some kind of universal truth. It might be easy for tech workers living in specific parts of the US, it is simply not true for the vast majority of their collegues in other parts of the world.

Translate the "200K+ salary" to "a salary that allows you to live an upper middle class lifestyle in many parts of the country".

I've participated in a few threads where software developers who were living in a poorer country in the EU weren't willing to move to a country with more opportunities in the EU because they wanted to be close to their extended families. Some basically admitted that they could move.

Re: What to care about in a job

#49

Post by scarface74 »

foo101 wrote: post #4

I think one important factor to consider, that is not mentioned explicity in the post, is: Manager. Your immediate manager can have a lot of impact on job satisfaction. A good manager would follow a bottom-up approach where he asks the team members what they need (time, equipment, etc.) and would try to get those things so that the team can succeed. This creates an overall higher job satisfaction. An ineffective mana…

I've had a lot of managers over the years but they usually fall into two buckets:

1. Very technical with no political skills. They are great to work for as mentors but they have no power in the organization to get their teams resources, raises, or promotions. They weren't career motivated because they made enough to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle and don't understand why you care so much about money.

2. The overly political. They will throw you under the bus in a heart beat to make themselves look good. They are very good with managing up. If you make them look good though and no how to play the game, you can get ahead. I was never good before recently at playing the game.

It's a rare manager that's good at both - they are like a unicorn. But they are great to work with. They can manage up well enough to communicate both the technical needs of their teams and get resources and compensation for their teams and they can help you on the technical level. I would have never been able to transistion from developer to dev lead without them.

Re: What to care about in a job

#50

Post by depressedpanda »

expertentipp wrote: post #27
some_account wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American culture seems to be incredibly bad for living a fulfilling life. Intelligent people on hacker news would do good to look at Sweden for a good balance between capitalism and socialism that actually works very well. Of course lately our politicians have allowed millions of immegrants to come in without having any sort of plan to give them jobs, so I expect Sweden to become pretty crap in the next 10 years. :)

Would intelligent people from HN do good in looking in Sweden for the sun, female partner, or an apartment for rent (in regions where there are professional opportunities)?

My anecdotal experience says yes.

Except for the sun, but vitamin D and living close to an international airport are sufficient supplements for me.

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