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Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

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Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#271

Post by thex10 »

irrational wrote: post #265
woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

>why software developers need to be left undisturbed I've tried explaining this to manager and business type of people. I've even shown them articles and papers about this topic. All I've ever gotten is mocking and scoffs about how we aren't special snowflakes and how every job requires thinking and concentration. Maybe they are right. I've never been a manager or business person. But it seems to me they spend an awf…

> But it seems to me they spend an awful lot more time talking and creating powerpoints than they do thinking.

As far as I can tell, that's how they do their thinking!

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#272

Post by bassman9000 »

Raphmedia wrote: post #110
ramphastidae wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking at work is one of the absolutely worst traits of tech. Not only is it totally unprofessional, but things like ‘Friday beers’ are actually presented by companies as a benefit, and you face major social and professional consequences for not participating. It’s obscene.

Every company offering "friday beer" I've worked at also offered the beer for free and up to an hour of extra paid break. Drinking the beer was never an obligation and there's always non-alcoholic alternatives. This gave us an opportunity to meet with all the other teams / departments. Sure, I would rather be at my local microbrewery drinking stout with my friends rather than drink cheap pilsner at work but it has it…

There is no way I would have been as close to those people if not for this paid social time.

One of the worst aspects IMHO of the US working culture is the blurring of the working/personal divide. Because the consequence is the semi-permanent working state of mind.

Don't get me wrong, I like to get along with my colleagues. But they're that, colleagues, not friends. These events only perpetuate the working vibe and merge it with the after-working-hours.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#273

Post by deepGem »

iamben wrote: post #100
LandR wrote: post #27

I work in a shared office / coworking space. We have 3 desks in a large open plan office with a kitchen area. It's about 10 feet from my desk. Most of the time it's just me from our company as the other devs work from home or work out the main office. My experience of working in this shared space: * It's noisy. I mean really noisy, noise cancelling headphones are a must. Like I said the kitchen area is near my desk,…

Anecdotal reply, hot-desking at WW in central London. * Some days noisy, some days very quiet. I have great headphones, but find myself more productive than when I worked at home. People are noisy, but generally the 'hum' is a sensible level, and it's only really irritating if someone is on Skype and conversing without headphones in (I'm not sure why that's more annoying that overhearing a face to face conversation,…

Anecdotal reply, dedicated desk WW Bangalore.

* Very quite DD area. Some guys talk over the phone even though it's frowned upon. That's an annoyance.

* Conversation is possible even in the quiet zone. I made quite a few acquaintances.

* The hot desk area is noisy as hell, most of the days. There's also WW background music. It just feels like a pub.

* The entire WW area, including toilets is super tidy and I mean tidy like a hospital OT.

Overall pro WW.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#274

Post by fragmede »

woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

PG penned this a couple years ago about the manager's schedule and the maker's schedule; it's still just as true today.

http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#275

Post by sumedh »

mourner wrote: post #237
kerkeslager wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one talks to anyone from other companies, to the point of awkwardness. I often see two people in the kitchen area from different companies and it can be a bit like a comedy sketch as they try to get their kitchening done without acknowledging the other person exists. Absurd, why don't people talk to each other. Especially people you see every day! Having worked in a number of shared workspaces: while this does s…

Hey, any recommendations for a conversation starter in a coworking kitchen?

How was your weekend or any special plans for this weekend.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#276

Post by meowface »

majormajor wrote: post #262
woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

> That's because any line of code will impact on dozens of different things in the program I'd say that's something to avoid whenever possible. But that's just pushing the metaphor back a level: in order to know how to design your codebase so that it's well-organized and extensible, you have to have a pretty good understanding of what it does, what it needs to do, and how it does it. For me... once I get into the zon…

>But that's just pushing the metaphor back a level: in order to know how to design your codebase so that it's well-organized and extensible, you have to have a pretty good understanding of what it does, what it needs to do, and how it does it.

There's also the risk of design paralysis. Where you focus so much on perfect program design that adding a new feature or making a change is offset by excessive, obsessive time spent making sure it fits the design absolutely perfectly. Some programmers think more about the aesthetics and organization of their code than the actual function. They may make large refactors with every minor change or spend hours thinking about the design when just implementing their first intuition would be way more efficient for both their present and future selves.

So, in some cases it may actually take more time to make a change to a well-designed codebase vs. someone who's just plugging things in as they go and refactoring later when they need to. But I would agree the opposite problem of poor design is far more common and that it's usually much faster to make changes to a well-designed application.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#277

Post by [deleted] »

dev_throw wrote: post #154
kerkeslager wrote: post #48

There's a bias toward the negative in writing, which I think comes from the fact that people write as an attempt to solve problems. So you're always going to see more negative reporting on shared offices than positive. But I'm old enough to remember when private offices were still common, and there was a lot of negative writing about those too. As someone about to enter the software industry, I was very concerned tha…

Yeah, I'm not sure what "the common themes of rap are in tune with the company’s mission" means. Does it allude to "diregard females and acquire currency" rap, or "selling pharmaceuticals" rap, or something entirely different, like conscious "class struggle" rap? This reader wants to know.

[deleted]

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#278

Post by ken »

woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

I've heard variants of this before, and while it's not wrong, I feel that once you're done telling a 200-word story to explain something, you'll have lost most of your audience. It's no longer an easy metaphor. They're not going to go back to their managers and tell a 200-word story, so you're limited to people you can talk to directly for a couple minutes.

What I would say, to anyone old enough to have lived through the HD->SSD transition, is: "Quiet offices are an SSD for programmers' brains."

It's short, it's simple, it's repeatable, it's understandable. I think it's more or less true, and it's hard to argue against SSDs. We buy our programmers SSDs for their computers, so why wouldn't we want them for their brains, too?

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#279

Post by ken »

dalyons wrote: post #117
izacus wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because research dating back to 1980s (see Peopleware) shows that shared offices are objectively less productive and result in less happy workforce?

It’s been awhile since I read it, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought peopleware was advocating for the same as the GP - mixed spaces that suit the individual preferences of teams/individuals.

The experiment I remember from Peopleware (at Cornell, IIRC?) is that some people preferred quiet and some people did not, but when measured they all were more efficient at completing tasks in the quiet environment.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#280

Post by foobarian »

macNchz wrote: post #137
jaymzcampbell wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had this problem in almost every office I've worked at. It shouldn't be different but for whatever reason, people seem to think it beneath them. I often wondered what state some of my co-worker's houses were in.

I've had the same experience, it seems to be a microcosm of the "tragedy of the commons" that has led to the spoiling of the environment, shared spaces, natural resources etc. That said, I've worked in an office where the company took a nagging/shaming/signs/emails approach instead of upping the cleaning budget as the team grew, which was frustrating and ineffective. Encouraging people to clean up after themselves is…

Well, privatization is how you deal with tragedies of the commons. Maybe there should be a ID-card unlocked kitchen where you have to accept T&C before every use that stipulate public surveillance and loss of privileges if not cleaned up. If you don't like it don't use it.
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