Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web • Hacker News Board

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#61

Post by wor3q » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

LocutusOfBorges wrote: post #58

dmitriid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user, I hate AMP: it breaks links, it breaks browser behaviour on mobile

This is particularly noticable on iOS- AMP pages break iOS' standard page scrolling ballistics, for some reason. It makes them feel non-native in a particularly egregious way.

Wasn't this a safari bug?

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#62

Post by sureaboutthis » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

>The web community has stated over and over again that we’re not comfortable with Google incentivizing the use of AMP with search engine carrots. In response, Google has provided yet another search engine carrot for AMP. This wouldn’t bother me if AMP was open about what it is: a tool for folks to optimize their search engine placement. But of course, that’s not the claim. The claim is that AMP is “for the open web.”

https://timkadlec.com/remembers/2018-02-14-the-two-faces-of-...

More: https://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2018/02/linkbait_37...

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#63

Post by sureaboutthis » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #5

I think it's very important to address the reason why AMP is possible in the first place: Websites are so extremely slow these days. From users perspective, when I see the lightning icon on my search results I feel happy because it means that the page will show me it's contents as soon as I click it. It means that the website is not going to show me white page for 15 seconds then start jumping around, changing shape…

Slow web sites shoot themselves in the foot. They need not be slow. My company develops high performance web sites. We can beat any AMP site you can find and we do it without CDNs or Google-like networks.

Like-minded thoughts: https://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2018/02/linkbait_37...

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#64

Post by thinkMOAR » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:48 PM UTC

I miss the 'ads' part of AMP in the article? One of the main goals is to serve ads better/faster.

"The AMP Project is an open-source initiative aiming to make the web better for all. The project enables the creation of websites and ads that are consistently fast, beautiful and high-performing across devices and distribution platforms."

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#65

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

whyagaindavid wrote: post #8

Genuine question: Why do people view AMP as a threat, whereas many Apple's formats/compatibility are non-standard? Is it because many accept privacy over openness? Example: Apple news or iTunes or Messages

You can use the Apple News Format, but you can also use it to subscribe to standard RSS feeds.

iTunes has been selling non DRM music for a decade and you can transfer most purchased movies to other services using Movies Anywhere. The podcast directory is just that - a directory to podcast feeds. They don't host any of the podcast and provide an API.

Messages interoperare with standard SMS, MMS. You don't get all of the non standard features.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#66

Post by oldcynic » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #5

I think it's very important to address the reason why AMP is possible in the first place: Websites are so extremely slow these days. From users perspective, when I see the lightning icon on my search results I feel happy because it means that the page will show me it's contents as soon as I click it. It means that the website is not going to show me white page for 15 seconds then start jumping around, changing shape…

Google should be penalising the actual problem - page weight, not building their walled garden.

So encouraging speed is ok to a point. Do they stop there and create AMP because Google is so invested in their ad ecosystem? Serious question, as it's hard not to feel cynical when the solution appears to avoid the actual problem. AMP seems a way of actively avoiding the issue.

It's so far beyond ridiculous that a website downloads from 30 domains, and pulls down so much JS that you have more code than an entire 16 bit OS, GUI and game, just to see one text only page.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#67

Post by SnowingXIV » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

I spent yesterday creating an AMP portion of a website and it was a pain, I got it to a decent state but when I ran performance tests it wasn't that much better but the usability seemed to suffer. I'm not sure if it's worth it. The website's sole business purpose is to succeed in SEO so that's why I thought it might be worth doing (if it sends a signal to google). Since non-amp and amp are already getting high marks and loads very fast I rather not include amp if doesn't actually increase SERPs. If someone knows the facts here I'd love to know because I scrapped it and would prefer not to look back.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#68

Post by lllr_finger » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

sureaboutthis wrote: post #63

mrtksn wrote: post #5

I think it's very important to address the reason why AMP is possible in the first place: Websites are so extremely slow these days. From users perspective, when I see the lightning icon on my search results I feel happy because it means that the page will show me it's contents as soon as I click it. It means that the website is not going to show me white page for 15 seconds then start jumping around, changing shape…

Slow web sites shoot themselves in the foot. They need not be slow. My company develops high performance web sites. We can beat any AMP site you can find and we do it without CDNs or Google-like networks. Like-minded thoughts: https://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2018/02/linkbait_37...

It's not a technical problem at all, and it's not the developers being bad.

If the top 1000ish sites can make millions a year from tacking on Outbrain, Taboola, etc. and the analytics to support those revenue streams, why do they care if the page speed is 3 seconds vs 500ms?

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#69

Post by sureaboutthis » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

lllr_finger wrote: post #68

sureaboutthis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slow web sites shoot themselves in the foot. They need not be slow. My company develops high performance web sites. We can beat any AMP site you can find and we do it without CDNs or Google-like networks. Like-minded thoughts: https://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2018/02/linkbait_37...

It's not a technical problem at all, and it's not the developers being bad. If the top 1000ish sites can make millions a year from tacking on Outbrain, Taboola, etc. and the analytics to support those revenue streams, why do they care if the page speed is 3 seconds vs 500ms?

The faster the site, the longer a visitor stays and the more likely they are to purchase. Even Google acknowledges that as well as many other sites that study such things. Sites don't gain income by just displaying an ad in many cases. You have to have visitors click on them and, often, make an actual purchase.

Re: Google AMP Is a Threat to the Open Web

#70

Post by dingo_bat » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

whyagaindavid wrote: post #8

Genuine question: Why do people view AMP as a threat, whereas many Apple's formats/compatibility are non-standard? Is it because many accept privacy over openness? Example: Apple news or iTunes or Messages

Personally, because I don't use a single idevice and don't plan to. Any of apple's bullshit can't touch me. But google's amp is fucking up the web everywhere. On my Ubuntu/Win10 laptop, on my android phone, every device I use to access the web.