Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#151

Post by adamredwoods » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:06 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #82

poulsbohemian wrote: post #46

In the past month three men, (one 45ish, another 55ish, another 74) two of whom I was barely acquainted with, have poured their souls out to me over their relationship and business troubles. I'd argue that it isn't hard to make friends, it's just hard to meet people in the first place. Men in particular get into a habit of focusing on business and family. More than once I've heard older men voice a complaint if their…

"it's just hard to meet people in the first place" If it's hard, it's usually a psychological difficulty rather than a lack of opportunity. Unless you live somewhere exceptionally remote, you're usually surrounded by people and opportunities for meeting them are quite frequent. You could strike up conversations most anywhere: from streets to bus stops to parks to bars to dance and social clubs to special interest gro…

I don't think "striking up conversations from anywhere" is the way to go to find long-term friendship. Friendships work best when the lives of both parties (assuming over 30 years old) are in sync: this can be either similar situations, or common life threads to talk about. Outside that, the energy required to maintain friendship goes up dramatically.

For people over 30+ some common threads are same-aged children, similar pets, common hobbies, etc. It's just easier, and let's assume that my life is busy enough that I don't have the energy to work in new relationships that don't have a certain flow to it. It's not about fear or lack of social skills, because at some point we are ALL going to be awkward in a conversation and this is easily forgiven, especially since by the time we hit 30+ we are a bit more patient.

Personally, I've found that creating a small group is the best way to find new friends and the energy to cultivate it is spread out amongst the group. Inviting new people into the common circle is MUCH easier. It's easier to keep interesting conversation with 3 people than 2. But with more people comes the problems of scheduling and opportunities become slimmer.

Similar-minded people looking for friendship is easier than doing it alone.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#152

Post by tmnvix » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #16

ggg9990 wrote: post #3

One anecdatum: I simply lost most interest in having friends by 25. I lost the rest when I had a kid. Now my friends are my daughter’s friends parents. I don’t really like them, I just end up chit chatting with them while our daughters play.

Are you male? I don't want to assume. But as a woman this is something that really concerns me about the guys I and my friends date. I see my father doing the same thing. Once they get into a stable relationship they seem to think that there's no need for a social life beyond their girlfriend, coworkers, and maybe one or two very close old friends... but those old friends tend to drift away. The reason it bothers me…

I think that women tend to be better at creating and maintaining relationships (I'm not necessarily talking about romantic relationships here).

I also think that women tend to get more emotional support from their relationships. Men don't really get this (at least explicitly) from their friends. They do get it from their intimate partners. For a lot of men, their partner is the only person they ever 'open up to'.

In general, I think there are strong cultural (and possibly even biological) reasons for the different approach to and amount of emphasis men and women put on socialising. In some circumstances, being a bit of a social recluse can be advantageous (e.g. extreme dedication to particular pursuits such as a career), but in total I think that men as a group suffer for this tendency. They are much more likely to end up alone and lonely in later life (discounting the fact that women live longer). I think this probably plays a large part in the high suicide rates amongst older men.

I think that something that could be done to address this issue - and something that would benefit both men and women in a variety of ways - would be to focus on removing cultural and financial barriers that keep men away from their families and in the workplace. For example, we shouldn't talk about maternity or paternity leave, but instead parental leave. The financial security of families should not be seen as a man's responsibility, but a shared responsibility (this goes back to the seemingly intractable issue of the relationship between financial status and attractiveness of men). These are really ingrained cultural attitudes but we can chip away at them.

Focussing on some of these sorts of issues would be good for men's mental health and a much more productive means of levelling the earnings gap between men and women than focussing almost exclusively on sexist discrimination in the workplace - a red herring in many (but certainly not all) cases. As most people are aware, a significant part of the earnings gap is down to the responsibilities women take on outside of the workplace, such as caring for children and elderly relatives or supporting the local school. We should be looking at what it is that is holding men back from participating more fully in their community. I think by not doing this, many men are missing out on one of the fundamental aspects of being human.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#153

Post by nicoburns » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:08 AM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #106

pmoriarty wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's just hard to meet people in the first place" If it's hard, it's usually a psychological difficulty rather than a lack of opportunity. Unless you live somewhere exceptionally remote, you're usually surrounded by people and opportunities for meeting them are quite frequent. You could strike up conversations most anywhere: from streets to bus stops to parks to bars to dance and social clubs to special interest gro…

As I noted later in my comment "unless one makes a concerted effort to seek out their tribe," which agrees with your point. That stated, this being a technical forum, many of us are Myers-Briggs (if you believe in it) INTJ types -- so yes, we do potentially lack the social skills. Moreover, I reflect upon my own adulthood, where for much of it I have risen before dawn to work, skipped lunches, returned home somewhere…

"for much of it I have risen before dawn to work, skipped lunches, returned home somewhere in the evenings, by and large have been unable to take vacations"

This is certainly nowhere close to the norm in europe. I only know a couple of people who work more than 40 hours a week (37.5 is standard in the UK), and they definitely take vacations.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#154

Post by pureGuano » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

mathperson wrote: post #143

poulsbohemian wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I noted later in my comment "unless one makes a concerted effort to seek out their tribe," which agrees with your point. That stated, this being a technical forum, many of us are Myers-Briggs (if you believe in it) INTJ types -- so yes, we do potentially lack the social skills. Moreover, I reflect upon my own adulthood, where for much of it I have risen before dawn to work, skipped lunches, returned home somewhere…

myer briggs is basically meaningless

I don't know about that. You just shouldn't strap more meaning onto it than that it's a survey that gives you a qualitative description of the answers you gave to it -- people have some innate attraction to such things and I find it hard to criticize them for it. I just don't think it's appropriate to use for career counseling, etc.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#155

Post by lr4444lr » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #39

lr4444lr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What precisely bothers you? That he changed his politics or that he's lost his friends? I'm not sure these are that related. I moved when I married and though I see fewer friends now and have fewer locally, those I would have here are far closer to the political spectrum you don't seem to like, as it is the case for many city dwellers who move out to the burbs for more space and cheaper housing.

Neither of those. It's the emotional burden that he imposes on my mom, making her manage his emotions because he has no other outlet.

My suggested antidote is involvement in civic groups. Neighborhood associations, block watch/civilian patrols, volunteer fire dept., Lion's club, Rotary club, Library board, school board, etc. These are very productive channels for adult male socializing, because they provide a healthy pretense to satisfy the masculine desire to be useful and important to the community, without ostensibly showing the need social bonds which many men might feel shows weakness.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#156

Post by SubiculumCode » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:11 AM UTC

It is hard to make friends. In some ways, we turn to online communities. Take for example HN. A great resource of intelligent knowledgeable people. But because the focus here is on high signal to noise postings, relationship building is not exactly encouraged. If there is one thing I'd like in a site like this, is a dual-mode. e.g. High-quality posts in the thread, but a side mode for chat.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#157

Post by poulsbohemian » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:12 AM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #153

poulsbohemian wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I noted later in my comment "unless one makes a concerted effort to seek out their tribe," which agrees with your point. That stated, this being a technical forum, many of us are Myers-Briggs (if you believe in it) INTJ types -- so yes, we do potentially lack the social skills. Moreover, I reflect upon my own adulthood, where for much of it I have risen before dawn to work, skipped lunches, returned home somewhere…

"for much of it I have risen before dawn to work, skipped lunches, returned home somewhere in the evenings, by and large have been unable to take vacations" This is certainly nowhere close to the norm in europe. I only know a couple of people who work more than 40 hours a week (37.5 is standard in the UK), and they definitely take vacations.

Completely true, take everything I said and reverse it for Europe. But I'm referring to life in These United States, where we don't have health care, we don't have vacation, we don't have maternity leave, we have very little public transportation... ok, I'll just stop before I get out of control.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#158

Post by poulsbohemian » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #146

pmoriarty wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's just hard to meet people in the first place" If it's hard, it's usually a psychological difficulty rather than a lack of opportunity. Unless you live somewhere exceptionally remote, you're usually surrounded by people and opportunities for meeting them are quite frequent. You could strike up conversations most anywhere: from streets to bus stops to parks to bars to dance and social clubs to special interest gro…

This jumps out at me on airplanes. You used to strike up conversations with the people next to you, unless they were sleeping or obviously working on something. Now they're wearing headphones, and it feels intrusive to talk to them.

One cup friends.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#159

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:14 AM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #153

poulsbohemian wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I noted later in my comment "unless one makes a concerted effort to seek out their tribe," which agrees with your point. That stated, this being a technical forum, many of us are Myers-Briggs (if you believe in it) INTJ types -- so yes, we do potentially lack the social skills. Moreover, I reflect upon my own adulthood, where for much of it I have risen before dawn to work, skipped lunches, returned home somewhere…

"for much of it I have risen before dawn to work, skipped lunches, returned home somewhere in the evenings, by and large have been unable to take vacations" This is certainly nowhere close to the norm in europe. I only know a couple of people who work more than 40 hours a week (37.5 is standard in the UK), and they definitely take vacations.

I'm assuming most readers are in an American context where, unfortunately, I don't think what he's describing is that unheard of.

Re: Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012)

#160

Post by ghrifter » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:14 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #146

pmoriarty wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's just hard to meet people in the first place" If it's hard, it's usually a psychological difficulty rather than a lack of opportunity. Unless you live somewhere exceptionally remote, you're usually surrounded by people and opportunities for meeting them are quite frequent. You could strike up conversations most anywhere: from streets to bus stops to parks to bars to dance and social clubs to special interest gro…

This jumps out at me on airplanes. You used to strike up conversations with the people next to you, unless they were sleeping or obviously working on something. Now they're wearing headphones, and it feels intrusive to talk to them.

I usually test the waters with some polite talk, but I dont want to be talking for 2+ hours of the duration of the flight dude...