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Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

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Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#61

Post by hestajex »

vancanwin wrote: post #46
treis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) Your 10x claim is obvious bullshit. Where is your research showing a measurable health improvement that is 10x greater? (2) Where is your peer reviewed research demonstrating that your system leads to measurable health improvements? Your company, like virtually every supplement company, is a scam that plays on the fears and ignorance of its customers. You have an obvious conflict of interest in that you both reco…

Thanks for your feedback. (1) Our 10x claim is on efficacy of absorption as for liquids typically easier to absorb than tablets or soft gels. I will submit that article soon. Apologize for not being clear. (2) As for measurable health improvements we are collecting those data through our customers and research done with our advisors at the moment. We have some preliminary results but are currently under review. Happy…

Your website claims that the "elixirs" are made in San-Francisco but you fail to mention the origin of the vitamins. Anyone can go on Alibaba and buy this stuff in bulk ship it to California and claim that it was, made "unique to you in our SF lab".

Everything about this product sets off red flags; no mention of sourcing, zero certificates of analysis and no peer reviewed research.

The "science" section only covers 'freshness' and 'personalization'.

This seems like a stat padding exercise for YC.

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#62

Post by vancanwin »

harigov wrote: post #51

Where do you list the vitamins that are included in the vial? Also, do you take into account genetic differences like MTHFR or vitamin absorption issues?

First, we include the vitamins base on a per package basis and that feature pops up after you've taken the metabolic assessment.

Second, yes that's the first genetic differences we are accounting for. My cofounder and I are both female founders with a set of MTHFR SNPs and have had issues with proper methylation of folic acid and even cobalamin. We currently include methylated cobalamin, but have had issues finding manufacturers that provide methylfolate (and not other derivatives such as methyltetrahydrofolic acid).

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#63

Post by blevin »

faitswulff wrote: post #17
vancanwin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly understand the skepticism especially when starting this company. That's why we are putting standards and QA processes to make sure our vitamins are pure and not filled with 99% fillers as most vitamins do. We are targeting people who have taken a step towards reducing their refine sugar, carbs, and proper exercise. Our customers typically work out and eat healthy, but are finding that supplementation is worki…

> not filled with 99% fillers Personally, my doubts about the supplement industry aren't about the purity of the vitamin supplements, but the effectiveness of supplements in general.

You may enjoy reading Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet's book _The Perfect Health Diet_. It includes an approachable survey of results for many supplements, as well as a considered take on why multivitamins seem less crucial than advertised.

One reason: metabolic interactions mean that proportionality matters, for example between A and D. Multivitamins are sometimes optimized for cost and pill size at the expense of this. Another reason is that people have varying baselines based on their diet, as well as how much micronutrient synthesis is happening in their gut. Because each vitamin (aka crucial micronutrient) has a dose-response curve, both too little or too much is bad; the book tries to chart out what is a good range for each and how you can achieve that through diet, lifestyle, and supplements. It is by no means a perfect book, but it is the best combination of approachable, credible, and well-researched information that I've come across.

The complexity of untangling these kinds of interactions is why nutrition research often seems to yield results that contradict earlier results. Biology is complex, but that does not mean progress in understanding it is impossible.

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#64

Post by treis »

treis wrote: post #58

Wow, I played around with this more. An active 6' 195 lb man gets the exact same recommendation as 5' 50,000 lb (Yes, fifty thousand pound) woman. You're not actually doing any analysis or customization are you?

Nope, it posts the answers to the survey to:

https://vp9eae2gvh.execute-api.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/test/...

which responds:

"Hello from Lambda"

At which point it shows me my "recommended" packages which are supposedly "tailored to my body". Picking one of those sends me to a payment screen.

This isn't shady or false advertising. This is an out and out scam.

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#65

Post by vancanwin »

treis wrote: post #58

Wow, I played around with this more. An active 6' 195 lb man gets the exact same recommendation as 5' 50,000 lb (Yes, fifty thousand pound) woman. You're not actually doing any analysis or customization are you?

Not sure where you got that feature since that feature is not yet available online. We can generate a list of dosages that customized base on your body composition.

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#66

Post by vancanwin »

robhunter wrote: post #56

When I filled out the form, I noticed there were a few "free response" fields - do they factor into the recommendations? What's done with the free-response answers?

We are looking to improve our assessments by getting a sense what other lifestyle factors to include. A lot of customers and people going through the site has been helping us add other factors such as smoking, for example.

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#67

Post by aaavl2821 »

vancanwin wrote: post #25
aaavl2821 wrote: post #23

I've worked with people who have started companies in this space and raised a lot of money, and also with lawyers who have represented some of the most prominent companies in this space. I'd be cautious around even "anecdotal" statements around decreasing base heart rate and aortic stiffness. FDA takes these kinds of claims very seriously, and it costs a LOT of money to get the kind of data FDA requires to back these…

Greatly appreciate the caution. Yes, we are working doctors who are making these claims with supplements and their device. However, I will tread carefully on my anecdotal statements as well.

In the US there is a very big difference between a doctor making a recommendation to a patient and a company marketing a product, even if the company is run by doctors.

As you know doctors can make suggestions based on their medical expertise, even for non FDA approved drugs, and in many cases malpractice is the mechanism by which "bad advice" is regulated

Companies are not doctors and do not have that same sort of leeway when giving medical advice. If patients complain, or if your company gets to the point where it is marketing drugs (even if you call them supplements) based on unfounded claims and it seems like it can cause reasonable public health concern, FDA can shut you down overnight

plus if you get some visibility and doctors get the sense you are marketing overly aggressively and making unsubstantiated claims that could hurt patients, they can be quite vocal

you probably know this but based on your answer i couldnt tell. dont mean to be overly critical, but ive seen many companies fail because they are glib re this issue, and when this happens it reflects poorly on the whole sector

not a lawyer or doctor, just an observer

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#68

Post by timlimfimbim »

vancanwin wrote: post #60
handbanana wrote: post #53

Can they be injected?

Our vitamins cannot be injected at the moment since most isoforms of vitamins are usually in an inactive form that requires absorption through the gut.

A more appropriate answer here would be "no, our product is not certified/approved for that use". If someone asks about injecting your product (and your product is not specifically intended/designed/approved for that use), then a response about isoforms seems to be the wrong way to go.

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#69

Post by crsv »

treis wrote: post #64
treis wrote: post #58

Wow, I played around with this more. An active 6' 195 lb man gets the exact same recommendation as 5' 50,000 lb (Yes, fifty thousand pound) woman. You're not actually doing any analysis or customization are you?

Nope, it posts the answers to the survey to: https://vp9eae2gvh.execute-api.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/test/... which responds: "Hello from Lambda" At which point it shows me my "recommended" packages which are supposedly "tailored to my body". Picking one of those sends me to a payment screen. This isn't shady or false advertising. This is an out and out scam.

This is pretty mindblowing for a YC company, pretty damaging to their brand as well being associated with this type of snake-oil product.

Re: Launch HN: Nutrigene (YC W18) – Tailor-made liquid supplements using health data

#70

Post by diN0bot »

vancanwin, this is a cool premium service and product. i would be more inclined to pay the premium price if the first step was getting blood/bone/gut work done. ordering the elixir based on a 10-second form didn't seem much better than me buying recommended vitamins at the store. it's not very custom is it!

it is the data about myself that i really struggle with.

i have health insurance and a doctor, but i don't know what tests to have done or what to do with that information afterwards. i don't even know if i can have these tests done simply by asking?!

does my blood show a deficiency in some vitamin or mineral? do i need to take calcium? is my gut doing great things for my mind and body?

i would pay premium price to figure out the above questions, and would be more likely to pay for a truly customized treatment.

ps - it's a lot of trust required to enter in birthday and personal information for a form. whereas i'd happily take a test with my doctor and then pay for a consultation with a certified medical specialist who puts my results in context of a solution - perhaps needing my weight and age and gender to do that. i it's hard to have that kind of trust with a new startup. in fact it made me trust y'all less to have to enter that info up front just to buy a standard mix of vitamins...

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