Perhaps there was no sugar conspiracy. In that case, an entire industry (along with government nutrition teams) went along with an incorrect theory for so long that it accounted for millions of chronic illnesses and trillions of dollars spent in the wrong direction. So there was no conspiracy. It seems - in either case - to be one of the greatest misapplications of science in history. At least the “flat earth” theory…
Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
191–200 of 230 posts
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why did we evolve to enjoy the taste of sugar?
We enjoy the taste of sweetness because it tends in nature to indicate that the thing we're eating contains a lot of energy, such as fruits and sweet vegetables. And we underestimate how finely attuned this sense is. Chew on wheat for a little bit and it will begin to taste sweet as the starch breaks down in your mouth and turns into sugar. Sugar is ridiculously sweet. Anyone who's laid off sweets for a few weeks or…
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The industry maliciously amplifies our innate tendency to find a "one-fits-all" solution. The bogeyman used to be fat, now it's sugar. That isn't a fad though, that is progress. > Soon, people will realize that getting 90% of your caloric intake from protein powders is bad This is obviously already true. You would get protein poisoning very quickly long before you hit your TDEE. > the industry will get ahold of the…
> Soon, people will realize that getting 90% of your caloric intake from protein powders is bad This is obviously already true. You would get protein poisoning very quickly long before you hit your TDEE. First off, do you need a study for that? I'd hate to sound insensitive, but perhaps common sense is a new Darwinism? There's a slew of shortcuts that will cut our lives short. And for the record I eat a huge amount o…
But there are many things involved here, for instance, if you don't eat any fat or protein, you will die, however, if you don't eat any carbohydrates, then you won't die, is this common sense to not stop eating carbohydrates or are we onto something?
Also protein poisoning happens if you don't eat fat, not if you eat too much protein.
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always find it interesting that it's never enough for any given person or group (be it corporation, Government agency, etc.) to be simply wrong , they also have to be evil in some capacity in order for people to get interested in retelling the story. IMHO, no, there was no sugar "conspiracy" merely the financial motives at play where companies wanted to continue producing foods they knew were unhealthy, addictive a…
> Wanting to be profitable doesn't make a company intrinsically evil, that's what companies are for. I think it's evil to want profits at the explicit, direct cost millions of people suffering and dying (not to mention the societal drag of hundreds of billions in healthcare costs). I personally don't believe that companies should be viewed as entirely amoral agents. I do understand that the vast majority of the time,…
Of course it is, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing it's illogical to expect an entity that is inherently amoral to act morally. One could make a solid argument that the corporation as a concept is in fact designed to abstract away decisions that carry heavy moral weight into smaller decisions made by people who, while moral themselves, do not connect their morality to their every day decisions about maximizing profits for the good of themselves and their coworkers.
> I personally don't believe that companies should be viewed as entirely amoral agents. I do understand that the vast majority of the time, profit incentives outweigh any moral considerations. But not 100% of the time.
Companies are not inherently immoral, no, not the way I believe corporations are. It's an issue of scale. Once you have sufficient distance between the leadership and the boots-on-the-ground workforce, it's much easier for them to make decisions that directly endanger said workforce without feeling as though they're doing anything wrong, with the added benefit of that same power structure abstracting their actions away to such a degree where they aren't held personally accountable when things go wrong and people die.
Were any of the executives of the Exxon company ever made to personally deal with their oil spills? I doubt it. If they were made to go out there in the freezing cold and clean penguins instead of paying some amount of money that was basically a heavy albeit necessary expense for them, I think you'd find them remembering that experience a lot better.
> Of course, public policy / laws / regulations are powerful tools that should be used as wisely as possible to help some of these issues. But I don't think we should view law as the only barrier that prevents companies from doing evil things -- the law will always be incomplete and limited in power. Human social factors, culture, and morality play a big role, I think, even in broadly affecting company behavior. Still working out my thoughts on this.
Again you're using the word "evil" which I believe is inherently a misnomer. Far more accurate I think is "stupid." If you have for example a small business owner who works in his shop every day and mandates that his workers wear eye protection, he doesn't so much need OSHA because he's also in that shop, and so enforces safety code for his safety, and that he has a direct and personal relationship with his fellow workers, and so wants to ensure their safety as well. In a corporation, you'll find you end up with a particular shop manager who doesn't value safety very much and encourages his workers to "bend the rules" on safety because it allows them to work faster. His higher ups don't necessarily see that, they just see this particular shop has now increased output by 8%, and so they ask their other shops "why are you not increasing output as well?" and those managers in turn feel that pressure and may lax their own standards as well.
"Evil" assigns ill will intent to actions which are not inherently about ill will, and make the people who make them into monsters or some kind of other-human type thing that is harder for people to identify. Making these people out to just be regular people making rational, but flawed, decisions is something people don't like to do because then they have to confront the reality that they are absolutely capable of performing actions that result in people losing eyes, oil tankers wrecking in Alaska, cruise ships capsizing, etc. and people don't like that.
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ketosis is a medical condition that is potentially harmful and even deadly in some cases it is not compatible with certain diseases or other medical conditions, but blanket statement like that is bullshit.
There is a very real risk of kidney damage, if not supervised by a medical professional.
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#196Perhaps there was no sugar conspiracy. In that case, an entire industry (along with government nutrition teams) went along with an incorrect theory for so long that it accounted for millions of chronic illnesses and trillions of dollars spent in the wrong direction. So there was no conspiracy. It seems - in either case - to be one of the greatest misapplications of science in history. At least the “flat earth” theory…
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#197Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
source needed. proper hydration and not overeating protein means kidneys will be fine.
Keto and paleo are by definition "overeating protein".
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Fruits are high in naturally-occurring sugars and they are among the healthiest things you can eat. Can you be precise about what you mean by this, or at least qualify this statement? Modern fruit obviously pushes the definition of "natural" to it's absolute limits, but more importantly, it's at least deeply unintuitive that something that consists mostly of fructose, a little fiber, trace metals, the rare vitamin,…
Yet another poster on HN, just echoing the platitudes of keto/paleo... > Modern fruit obviously pushes the definition of "natural" to it's absolute limits Modern fruit is not much different nutritionally from wild fruit[1]. Sure, some ancient fruit like bananas were pretty inedible, but that is a far cry from what keto/paleo dogma suggests. As an anecdote, I am living in Borneo right now, and we can go out into the j…
Fruit, the reproductive organ of a plant, is commonly available in markets without seeds. But again, this truth is tangential to the important claims about what is actually in specific foods.
Provide your sources. Before my original post, I bing searched for "apple nutrients," "orange nutrients," and "banana nutrients." I choose these three fruits because they are the most commonly available where I live. Yes, I certainly accept that foods in ecosystems foreign to mine have different nutrient profiles than the fruits I'm familiar with, and if you're in a region where there grows a fruit with a nutrient profile similar to, for example, spinach, then you have access to some healthy fruit! However, I assume most people in the "Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?" thread are Americans or interested in American dietary habits.
If you're literally saying the specific nutrient content of a food tells you nothing about how well the food contributes to maintaining vital processes, then we have a breakdown in language. If it clears things up at all, I'm using Wikipedia definition of "nutrient."
Re: Was there ever really a “sugar conspiracy”?
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Interpretations vary, but giving up on fruit or grain and starch is obviously not part of it. For typical genetics, this is true. However, I've yet to find any sources that show prevention and/or reversal of Type 2 that holds over 5+ years that includes a significant (>20g) of net daily carbs from fruit, grain and/or starches. I'm not alone, but in a definite minority of people who control their Type 2 through only…
As I've been trying to reconcile both the behavior of my own body and all the data that has been coming at us over the past couple of decades, one of the things that I've wondered is whether a crap, sugar-filled diet can do permanent damage that can never be undone, making the body especially prone to take carbs and behave badly with them. My idea here is that perhaps some of the issue here is that people like you (a…
For me there is a strong genetic component. Practically every member of my extended family on one side of my parents is either pre-Type 2, or is full-blown Type 2. Did not know this growing up, and dutifully ate a diet laden with starches, which came to bite me in the ass in a big way as an adult. The rest of the immediate and extended family is now aware, and knows that I'm living proof that if they catch the same subtype, it can be prevented and (if too late) reversed without resorting to medication, and hopefully I stop it dead in its tracks with my generation, and it never gets even a toehold in future generations of my family.
> As an individual, the 3% isn't really interesting,...
This is why open source and open data is so critical to scientific research moving forward. My hope is either JupyterLab or some project like it with massive collaboration and scaling becomes the standard way to present scientific findings in the future, and all raw data and software tooling used becomes accessible by anyone. Then we could definitively answer questions like yours.