If they really want to try something progressive they should explore male/female quotas in prison populations.
Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
51–60 of 60 posts
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#52Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity... Many things have been said by other, better informed and more eloquent people than me. I noticed this however: “At least ten more years” And that makes me wonder if and when this will turn into something akin the "Communism / Captialism / Whatever concept has never been tried/implemented _properly_" Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do so…
>Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do society any good. Well, isn't it just convenient that if we don't strive for equality of outcome then life will just have to remain tilted in favor of white/asian men
Why? Status quo is not the only alternative to equality of outcome.
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do society any good. Well, isn't it just convenient that if we don't strive for equality of outcome then life will just have to remain tilted in favor of white/asian men
Does the fact that asian men are included not rule out racism and open the door to examine the issue further?
Uh, no not really?
That biases about race might be changing form doesn't "rule out" the idea of racism. You might as well say the increased inclusion of Irish people in the last few decades rules out racism in that period.
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you asking what sexist biases exist within society that are working against the interest of Women? How about: - Income inequality - Unequal domestic workload - Only 22% of elected parliamentarians being female
I kind of like Dr. Peteron's view on these kind of questions, try flipping them around. Don't ask "Why do women earn less?" Try framing it as "What are the reasons men earn more?" Another one, "Why is it that there are so few women in high level management positions?" frame it as "Why are there so much men willing to put up with the stress and pressure of high level management positions?" There are a lot of reasons f…
>"Why is it that there are so few women in high level management positions?" frame it as "Why are there so much men willing to put up with the stress and pressure of high level management positions?"
Except this "framing" implicitly introduces the assumption that gendered differences in stress and pressure tolerance is the cause.
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#55No matter how effective, I will always believe that this is outright wrong and sexist. I am amazed that my home country, Sweden, has not followed since it is basically the feminist capital of the world.
Yeah but most of the outright wrong and sexist things our societies allow seem to disadvantage women. This doesn't make it even, but it's a good step.
I disagree. In Sweden, at least, it is my opinion that there are more things in society that are disadvantages to men rather to women. Still however, people who vouch for sexist laws as this one always seem to see women as victims.
I personally believe that this is just a part of their ideology. The idea of a patriarchy is a fixed idea which will never change no matter how much legislation that gets pushed.
I will never support such an ideology and I will probably not really respect quota hires since they are just that. They are not hired because they seemed best for the position, just to appease to some social justice laws or beliefs.
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#56Comments in this thread are all discussing the wrong topic. It wouldn't matter if 100% of corporate board members were women and minorities due to how boards are constructed over time through shareholder "elections".
Corporate boards are not a free market of ideas, they do not support or represent shareholders, society, or employees, they are monopolized self-serving power structures representing an extension of incumbent management.
Introducing diversity into a situation with already-disfunctional power dynamics (which drastically favor incumbent management because all votes not cast are cast in favor of incumbents) obviously have no impact. Corporate governance laws and proxy voting processes changing is a prerequisite for marginal board members to ever have any real power.
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#57In principle, a quota rule can be used for power consolidation by (arguably douchebaggy) men that already occupy a relative position of power. I can imagine members of an all-male board using quotas as a means to move competitors or newcomers out of their way to the highest position.
Though it doesn't have to be quota for women, of course.
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#58Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity... Many things have been said by other, better informed and more eloquent people than me. I noticed this however: “At least ten more years” And that makes me wonder if and when this will turn into something akin the "Communism / Captialism / Whatever concept has never been tried/implemented _properly_" Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do so…
This is what bothers me the most. The thinking seems to be that by deliberately employing "positive" discrimination, someday we'll detect that bias has been eliminated, and then the government will instruct all institutions throughout the country to dismantle their discriminatory policies. Having deliberately practiced discrimination for 10, or 20, or 30, or however many years, someday we'll see it isn't needed anymo…
If unions are anything to go by, in those 10/20/30 years powerful institutions will arise ensuring bias will always be detected, either by technical/political interference with the means of measurement, or altering the scope of what constitutes "bias".
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#59> Xavier Fontanet, former chief executive of Essilor, a French eyewear company, quoted Charles de Gaulle as saying “one may not command without having obeyed”—his point being that women often lack the management experience that makes a good board director. who would have thought that we'd hear this argument in 2017!! Personally, I don't think things like this can be mandated. Yes, there is a gender gap between men an…
>What we, as a society need to do is to encourage men to be less sexist, for instance, a manger who can hire a male and a female who are both eligble should not hire a male because he 'doesn't want female', that needs to be fixed. But there are no managers who will say that. They'll rationalize it a different way that people will buy into. > I have seen the reservation system in India and it is horrible, to be honest…
Do you really think that the reservations based on caste i.e. SC/ST not having a creamy layer is balancing the act?
I had got 150 in IIT JEE, a friend had got 70. I missed the cut off by 30marks, I am from 'open' and he was from SC, he wore woodlands shoes, Rayban glasses and he missed IITB admissions by 5 marks. Can you imagine? We were in the same school etc
Reservations system has run amok, incidentally, even Dr. Ambedkar had said that reservations need to be there only for the first 10yrs otherwise it'd have drastic effects and they are.
I am reading India after Gandhi and I appreciate all that was done by our founding fathers and mothers, I appreciate the fact of reservations, but the madness has to stop.
People ahve started to treat reservation as their 'birthright'
Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards
#60Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity... Many things have been said by other, better informed and more eloquent people than me. I noticed this however: “At least ten more years” And that makes me wonder if and when this will turn into something akin the "Communism / Captialism / Whatever concept has never been tried/implemented _properly_" Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do so…
> Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do society any good. I presume many slave owners had the same point of view.
This kind of flamebait isn't how we converse on Hacker News, please.