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Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

economist.com

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Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#11
Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity... Many things have been said by other, better informed and more eloquent people than me. I noticed this however:

    “At least ten more years”
And that makes me wonder if and when this will turn into something akin the "Communism / Captialism / Whatever concept has never been tried/implemented _properly_"

Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do society any good.

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#12

Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity... Many things have been said by other, better informed and more eloquent people than me. I noticed this however: “At least ten more years” And that makes me wonder if and when this will turn into something akin the "Communism / Captialism / Whatever concept has never been tried/implemented _properly_" Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do so…

> Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do society any good.

I presume many slave owners had the same point of view.

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#13

Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity... Many things have been said by other, better informed and more eloquent people than me. I noticed this however: “At least ten more years” And that makes me wonder if and when this will turn into something akin the "Communism / Captialism / Whatever concept has never been tried/implemented _properly_" Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do so…

> Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do society any good. I presume many slave owners had the same point of view.

In what sense is this a productive contribution to the conversation?

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#14

It would seem that governments mandating equality works, and that basic equality isn't the end of society or successful corporate-hood as we know it. Who would've thunk.

"Gender quotas at board level in Europe have done little to boost corporate performance or to help women lower down"

Isn't the article saying that they didn't work?

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which things?

Are you asking what sexist biases exist within society that are working against the interest of Women? How about: - Income inequality - Unequal domestic workload - Only 22% of elected parliamentarians being female

I kind of like Dr. Peteron's view on these kind of questions, try flipping them around. Don't ask "Why do women earn less?" Try framing it as "What are the reasons men earn more?" Another one, "Why is it that there are so few women in high level management positions?" frame it as "Why are there so much men willing to put up with the stress and pressure of high level management positions?"

There are a lot of reasons for the inequality between men and women. I'm not saying they are "justified" or "fair" but there are some obvious (painful, even) but true reasons why men and women don't earn the same. Of course, these reasons do not specify the whole margin but they explain quite some of the variation.

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#16
> Xavier Fontanet, former chief executive of Essilor, a French eyewear company, quoted Charles de Gaulle as saying “one may not command without having obeyed”—his point being that women often lack the management experience that makes a good board director.

who would have thought that we'd hear this argument in 2017!!

Personally, I don't think things like this can be mandated. Yes, there is a gender gap between men and women and yes that needs to be fixed, but you need to target from the ground level and not from the board level.

What we, as a society need to do is to encourage men to be less sexist, for instance, a manger who can hire a male and a female who are both eligble should not hire a male because he 'doesn't want female', that needs to be fixed.

But I think it is wrong to say "hire 5% female candidates"

Because that is not equality. I have seen the reservation system in India and it is horrible, to be honest, it only helps the top % people but the bottom of the food chain is exactly where they were since the start, the bottom of the food chain.

Interestingly, 'reservation for women' was rejected by the female freedom fighters of India because 'they didn't want the superficial equality rights that women want in a few developed democracies' referring to obviously the suffrage movement.

But that being said, the gap exists and it'd be stupid to say that it does not.

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#17
post #14

It would seem that governments mandating equality works, and that basic equality isn't the end of society or successful corporate-hood as we know it. Who would've thunk.

"Gender quotas at board level in Europe have done little to boost corporate performance or to help women lower down" Isn't the article saying that they didn't work?

I would interpret the very same sentence as equality is up, yet nothing bad has happened.

I don't think corporate board equality was ever though of as a panacea.

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sexist both ways too. Even if you are a woman that really deserved to lead some company, people will think that you just got there because of the quota. Every error you do would count tenfolds against you... That can't be good. And those negative views don't entirely come from sexism. I assume similar things would happen if there was a quota for e.g. short people. People are just jealous and claim that others do…

Maybe better than not being elected in the first place? To my understanding, quotas are only a transition solution.

Yeah... I guess it's needed once to kinda break the resistance / bias against women. But in the long term it should definitely not exists.

I would propose slowly ramping it up to 50% over a range of maybe 20 years? Then hold it for 10, and drop it.

From there on it should be fair game. If the imbalance should happen again, then I guess it's just how it is...

(The slow ramp-up is so you don't fill up with the first best women available, which maybe might not necessarily be the best candidates... Which would lead to more bias if they fail the job, instead of the opposite.)

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#19

Equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity... Many things have been said by other, better informed and more eloquent people than me. I noticed this however: “At least ten more years” And that makes me wonder if and when this will turn into something akin the "Communism / Captialism / Whatever concept has never been tried/implemented _properly_" Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do so…

> Personally, I don't think striving for equality of outcome will do society any good. I presume many slave owners had the same point of view.

You think slaves had equal opportunities to others, but still ended up/choosing to be slaves?

Re: Ten years on from Norway's quota for women on corporate boards

#20
post #14

It would seem that governments mandating equality works, and that basic equality isn't the end of society or successful corporate-hood as we know it. Who would've thunk.

"Gender quotas at board level in Europe have done little to boost corporate performance or to help women lower down" Isn't the article saying that they didn't work?

I think the article is saying that the results are inconclusive. They have had little effect in either direction, so now that they are the status quo, there's no reason not to keep them. Arguments of excessive regulatory overhead may or may not be compelling, but they have an uphill battle to fight.
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