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Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

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Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#51

Post by dominotw »

maxxxxx wrote: post #37
rayiner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a very biased framing. Even with the changes, our tax system is more progressive than say France or Germany.

"As noted in the World Inequality Report 2018, in both Europe and the US the top 1% of adults earned around 10% of national income in 1980. In Europe that has risen today to 12%, but in the US it has reached 20%." The tax reform will shift even more income to the top 1%. How is that biased framing?

So I am looking up GINI. European countries have similar and sometimes higher( france, germany) GINI than USA. Over the years seems to have stayed constant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#52

Post by hnburnsy »

sjg007 wrote: post #39
protomyth wrote: post #12

US infant mortality rates in 2013 were the highest in the developed world This is a common stat thrown around, but there is a non-obvious caveat. How this is counted differs between countries (even different in different EU countries). Wikipedia has a pretty good summary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality

It's not reporting: "the differences in reporting are unlikely to be the primary explanation for the United States' relatively low international ranking. Rather, the report concluded that primary reason for the United States’ higher infant mortality rate when compared with Europe was the United States’ much higher percentage of preterm births.[72]" from the wikipedia article you cite. The question is why does America…

Doesn't this explain why?

"A non-viable live birth in the US could be registered as a stillbirth in similarly developed nations like Japan, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, the Netherlands, and France – thereby reducing the infant death count. Neonatal intensive care is also more likely to be applied in the US to marginally viable infants..."

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#53

Post by dominotw »

mc32 wrote: post #31

I don't doubt the gist of most of the report. We could do much better with the money we spend on Health... but this sounds odd: "Neglected tropical diseases, including Zika, are increasingly common in the USA" Given that a few years ago it was unheard of disease by most professionals.

Not sure what point he is tyring to make with that

> 424 symptomatic Zika virus disease cases reported*

> 414 cases in travelers returning from affected areas

> 4 cases acquired through presumed local mosquito-borne transmission in Florida (N=2) and Texas (N=2)

> 6 cases acquired through sexual transmission

There were ~10 cases were people got infected by zika while in united states.

How is spending more money on public health going to prevent people getting infected while overseas.

https://www.cdc.gov/zika/reporting/2017-case-counts.html

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#54

Post by dominotw »

WaylonKenning wrote: post #33
downandout wrote: post #20

"The proposed tax reform package stakes out America’s bid to become the most unequal society in the world, and will greatly increase the already high levels of wealth and income inequality between the richest 1% and the poorest 50% of Americans....It is against this background that my report is presented." It's interesting that he is a law professor (not an economics professor) and yet he stated this as if it were in…

It's interesting that you're an Entrepreneur (not a Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights) and yet you've rendered this entire report meaningless, in-spite of all the additional body of evidence considered in the report.

Rest of his report is kind of strange also

eg: * Neglected tropical diseases, including Zika, are increasingly common in the USA *

> 424 symptomatic Zika virus disease cases reported*

> 414 cases in travelers returning from affected areas

> 4 cases acquired through presumed local mosquito-borne transmission in Florida (N=2) and Texas (N=2)

> 6 cases acquired through sexual transmission

There were ~10 cases were people got infected by zika while in united states.

How is spending more money on public health going to prevent people getting infected while traveling to affected areas.

https://www.cdc.gov/zika/reporting/2017-case-counts.html

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#55

Post by maxxxxx »

dominotw wrote: post #51
maxxxxx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As noted in the World Inequality Report 2018, in both Europe and the US the top 1% of adults earned around 10% of national income in 1980. In Europe that has risen today to 12%, but in the US it has reached 20%." The tax reform will shift even more income to the top 1%. How is that biased framing?

So I am looking up GINI. European countries have similar and sometimes higher( france, germany) GINI than USA. Over the years seems to have stayed constant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...

What data are you looking at on this page? I see the US way higher than either Germany or France. I am looking at "Gini coefficient, after taxes and transfers"

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#56

Post by sjg007 »

hnburnsy wrote: post #52
sjg007 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not reporting: "the differences in reporting are unlikely to be the primary explanation for the United States' relatively low international ranking. Rather, the report concluded that primary reason for the United States’ higher infant mortality rate when compared with Europe was the United States’ much higher percentage of preterm births.[72]" from the wikipedia article you cite. The question is why does America…

Doesn't this explain why? "A non-viable live birth in the US could be registered as a stillbirth in similarly developed nations like Japan, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, the Netherlands, and France – thereby reducing the infant death count. Neonatal intensive care is also more likely to be applied in the US to marginally viable infants..."

"the differences in reporting are unlikely to be the primary explanation for the United States' relatively low international ranking."

and

"Many countries, including the United States, Sweden and Germany, count an infant exhibiting any sign of life as alive, no matter the month of gestation or the size, but according to United States some other countries differ in these practices."

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#57

Post by dominotw »

maxxxxx wrote: post #55
dominotw wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I am looking up GINI. European countries have similar and sometimes higher( france, germany) GINI than USA. Over the years seems to have stayed constant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...

What data are you looking at on this page? I see the US way higher than either Germany or France. I am looking at "Gini coefficient, after taxes and transfers"

I was looking at " Gini coefficient, before taxes and transfers" but I think after taxes is more relevant like you pointed out.

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#58

Post by gwright »

That report starts out with the ridiculous statement that "40 million people continue to live in poverty" in the US.

If you spend just five or ten minutes trying to understand where that number comes from you can only include that Mr. Alston is either unimaginably incompetent in understanding poverty statistics or he is being massively disingenuous in his reporting.

A little googling will show that the 40 million number is based on cash income that doesn't excludes massive amounts of government assistance (housing assistance, food stamps, and so on). It is an absolute useless statistic to use as a primary statement about "poverty" in the US.

Here is a good take down of this misleading report: http://manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2018/1/30/completely-tak...

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#59

Post by Caveman_Coder »

downandout wrote: post #49
nraynaud wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As seen from an extreme right point of view, every reasonable position that is not deep conservative is seen as biased far to the left.

If you're referring to me, I'm actually somewhere in the middle. But I simply can't stand seeing political propaganda masquerading as legitimate news or facts - on either side of the aisle. So when I see such things, I'm going to point it out.

What do think about the other content in the report?

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#60

Post by shkkmo »

downandout wrote: post #20

"The proposed tax reform package stakes out America’s bid to become the most unequal society in the world, and will greatly increase the already high levels of wealth and income inequality between the richest 1% and the poorest 50% of Americans....It is against this background that my report is presented." It's interesting that he is a law professor (not an economics professor) and yet he stated this as if it were in…

> and then went on to base much of the rest of his report on it.

The report is mostly based on statistics and the observations of the author. There is some discussion of tax reform later under "VI. Principal current governmental responses" but to claim that the author "went on to base much of the rest of his report on it" is disingenuous at best.

Furthermore, I don't feel like this a controversial claim. Can you cite a single source that argues that the tax reform package will have no effect on income inequality or will reduce it? I was not able to find one (in my limited search). The best I can do is find arguments that income inequality doesn't matter (https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2017-11-30/liberal-c...)

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