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A secret on the ocean floor

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#51

Post by PretzelPirate »

phlowbieuq wrote: post #18
Pigo wrote: post #15

"Bram Murton, a geologist with the UK’s National Oceanography Centre, says that if all the cars on Europe’s roads are electric by 2040, and if they use the same kind of batteries as the Tesla Model 3, that would require 28 times more cobalt than is produced right now." "At the moment more than 60% of all cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo. For decades allegations of corruption and human rights abuses…

I'm hardly ever an optimist, but I believe that this kind of situation is exactly what the saying "Necessity is the mother of invention" applies to. I am 100% confident that Elon has an entire team of material scientists at Tesla working on alternatives to these rare materials.

Do you think Elon built the Falcon Heavy so he can get an alternative supply of the materials he needs from asteroids (I have no idea if cobalt can be found on asteroids)?

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#52

Post by JoeAltmaier »

sametmax wrote: post #46
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, be cautious. But about what? Which things? Talk about isms, the tendency of the popular press to latch onto big obvious things and say "What about microplastic beads?!" Its something folks can see and get behind. Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem. We have a limited fund of energy, emotional and productive. To spend it on microplastic beads may well be the right direction. But is surely…

Then you wouldn't mind to drink water containing such plastic for the rest of your life, would you ? And give it to your kid ? Cause as long as we have no proof it's dangerous...

Well of course we're all doing that already. Just in very low amounts. I don't worry about what's not a problem.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#53

Post by el_don_almighty »

Humans do not need to mine the ocean. The proven reserves of existing mines and future projects are more than enough for decades. Anyone who says otherwise is only looking to save a dollar and will cut costs on environmental sustainability. The USA is sitting on millions of tons of copper while watching other countries mine it out of theirs. We could supply the whole world for decades on our own if we wanted to restore our mining industry.

But there's no real economic need for US minerals.

I would argue there might be a strategic need for them, but not an economic one.

There is certainly no economic imperative to mine the ocean floor in the face of the potential environmental harm it may cause.

I question it's morality on the basis of balancing mankind's needs versus our calling to manage our resources properly.

Wouldn't this money be better spent recycling e-waste where the copper and gold content is significantly higher and the environmental impact is demonstrably positive?

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#54

Post by tritium »

Pigo wrote: post #15

"Bram Murton, a geologist with the UK’s National Oceanography Centre, says that if all the cars on Europe’s roads are electric by 2040, and if they use the same kind of batteries as the Tesla Model 3, that would require 28 times more cobalt than is produced right now." "At the moment more than 60% of all cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo. For decades allegations of corruption and human rights abuses…

And, oh yeah, by the way, even if we do “solve” this “problem” by mining asteroids, and unlock an unlimited supply of all minerals on demand at all times, how long before we import so much mass, that we drastically alter the concentrations of strange, toxic compounds in the biosphere, well beyond what would have ever been possible with decades of the most dehumanizing mining operations imaginable?

In a hypothetical worst-case scenario, let’s imagine the world had an insatiable appetite for mercury thermometers, and presto! Asteroid mining to the rescue! We discover that all the asteroids have a delicious, juicy mercury core!

Extrapolated to extremes, the world adopts disposable mercury thermometers as the new normal, and in a decade, methylmercury poisons the globe, as landfills accumulate tons and tons of broken thermometers, and the waste quickly seeps into the water table.

Inexhaustable supply can cause problems on its own.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#56

Post by cryptonector »

Pigo wrote: post #15

"Bram Murton, a geologist with the UK’s National Oceanography Centre, says that if all the cars on Europe’s roads are electric by 2040, and if they use the same kind of batteries as the Tesla Model 3, that would require 28 times more cobalt than is produced right now." "At the moment more than 60% of all cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo. For decades allegations of corruption and human rights abuses…

Perhaps, just maybe, our need for these materials may help stabilize and improve countries where they are found. Now, it could easily go the other way. Natural resource wealth is often paired with terrible poverty and does not seem to alleviate it, but to make it worse. However, each find is a chance to get it right.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#57

Post by ideonexus »

jimmy1 wrote: post #23
deanCommie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm much less optimistic than you. The amount of willful cognitive dissonance on display here is staggering. > “Where we’ll be operating, it’s cold and dark,” says one senior Nautilus executive. “There are no tuna there, they need entirely different conditions near the surface of the ocean.” I expect nothing less from the mining executive to dismiss concerns that the ocean's ecosystems are directly connected. > "For…

> On the other hand, there are also hundreds of millions of people that rely on fish for their protein. Are we willing to risk destroying our oceans to save our land? Plenty of fish you can eat that live in tanks of water. Who says they need to come from the ocean?

Maybe it was the tone of your comment that got you downvoted, but there's an important point here. Fish farming is a crucial tool in preserving our oceans. We can't keep taking fish from the open seas; we need to set up dedicated farms to grow what we need.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#58

Post by JoeAltmaier »

specialist wrote: post #35
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, be cautious. But about what? Which things? Talk about isms, the tendency of the popular press to latch onto big obvious things and say "What about microplastic beads?!" Its something folks can see and get behind. Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem. We have a limited fund of energy, emotional and productive. To spend it on microplastic beads may well be the right direction. But is surely…

"Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem." What measure of proof do you require, to convince you that it's a problem worthy of your attention?

Any proof at all. To say 'there are plastic beads in fish' is not any kind of data point.
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