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Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

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Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#11

Post by carapace »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #4
GuiA wrote: post #2

The whole report is a great read, which completely lines up with my experience living in various places in the US (particularly California + Louisiana) as a European - but this example near the beginning particularly stands out to me because, living in an area in San Francisco with a very visible homeless population, I witness it on a near daily basis: "I witnessed a San Francisco police officer telling a group of ho…

It was my understanding that SF in particular is an incredibly rich county and that there are adequate beds available in shelters for the homeless. Is this not the case?

SF spends about a quarter of a billion dollars a year on homelessness.[1] There are not adequate beds available in shelters for the homeless.[2]

[1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-recor...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/10/san-francisc...

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#12

Post by protomyth »

US infant mortality rates in 2013 were the highest in the developed world

This is a common stat thrown around, but there is a non-obvious caveat. How this is counted differs between countries (even different in different EU countries). Wikipedia has a pretty good summary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#13

Post by SllX »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #4
GuiA wrote: post #2

The whole report is a great read, which completely lines up with my experience living in various places in the US (particularly California + Louisiana) as a European - but this example near the beginning particularly stands out to me because, living in an area in San Francisco with a very visible homeless population, I witness it on a near daily basis: "I witnessed a San Francisco police officer telling a group of ho…

It was my understanding that SF in particular is an incredibly rich county and that there are adequate beds available in shelters for the homeless. Is this not the case?

There are not adequate beds available in shelters for the homeless. There are not even adequate shelters for the homeless. The shelters are not always even safe places to be if you're homeless. Nor are the shelters that exist adequate substitutes for mental hospitals that a portion of the homeless population should be housed within but can't be because they don't exist.

If you're homeless, there are worse places to be than San Francisco and not many that are better, certainly none that I could think of. Maybe Salt Lake City? That said, there aren't any good places to be homeless in America, only comparatively better.

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#14

Post by toomuchtodo »

manicdee wrote: post #8
GuiA wrote: post #2

The whole report is a great read, which completely lines up with my experience living in various places in the US (particularly California + Louisiana) as a European - but this example near the beginning particularly stands out to me because, living in an area in San Francisco with a very visible homeless population, I witness it on a near daily basis: "I witnessed a San Francisco police officer telling a group of ho…

The implicit, undocumented, de facto aim of moving homeless on to somewhere else is to have them die quietly out of the public eye. A better way to solve the “homeless problem” is to give people homes, counselling, and access to work. This is because homelessness is usually a result of losing a job and thus a house and thus one’s self esteem (and in some cases, one’s mind).

Worked in Utah.

TL;DR Housing the homeless is cheaper than the chronic costs of not housing the homeless.

"Utah Reduced Chronic Homelessness By 91 Percent; Here's How"

https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#17

Post by vkou »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #4
GuiA wrote: post #2

The whole report is a great read, which completely lines up with my experience living in various places in the US (particularly California + Louisiana) as a European - but this example near the beginning particularly stands out to me because, living in an area in San Francisco with a very visible homeless population, I witness it on a near daily basis: "I witnessed a San Francisco police officer telling a group of ho…

It was my understanding that SF in particular is an incredibly rich county and that there are adequate beds available in shelters for the homeless. Is this not the case?

There aren't enough beds, and many homeless people prefer sleeping on the street, then in a shelter, for a number of logical reasons.

1. They are more likely to be assaulted or robbed in a shelter. Shelter staff may or may not do shit to help you.

2. Shelter admission hours can be limited - they may be incompatible with their job.

3. You are expected to be drug and alochol free in a shelter. For someone with an addiction, this may not be something they can accept. [1]

[1] Before anyone suggests that the solution is for those people to just quit their addiction, please keep in mind that there are many wealthy, intelligent, mentally sound people in a stable, supportive environment, with a loving family are unable to break their addictions.

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#18

Post by vkou »

GuiA wrote: post #2

The whole report is a great read, which completely lines up with my experience living in various places in the US (particularly California + Louisiana) as a European - but this example near the beginning particularly stands out to me because, living in an area in San Francisco with a very visible homeless population, I witness it on a near daily basis: "I witnessed a San Francisco police officer telling a group of ho…

It's because of this. [1]

A large contingent of the public wants to not have any homeless, but isn't willing to fund getting homeless people off the streets. (Yes, San Francisco may be mismanaging their homeless budget, but not every city is.)

So, since they aren't willing to do anything constructive, but are willing to complain, they call the police. Since it's almost impossible to be homeless and not be breaking one law or another, the police show up, move them somewhere else, and the cycle repeats.

[1] https://thehomelessguy.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/citizen-do-n...

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#19

Post by pnw_hazor »

vkou wrote: post #17
alexandercrohde wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was my understanding that SF in particular is an incredibly rich county and that there are adequate beds available in shelters for the homeless. Is this not the case?

There aren't enough beds, and many homeless people prefer sleeping on the street, then in a shelter, for a number of logical reasons. 1. They are more likely to be assaulted or robbed in a shelter. Shelter staff may or may not do shit to help you. 2. Shelter admission hours can be limited - they may be incompatible with their job. 3. You are expected to be drug and alochol free in a shelter. For someone with an addic…

Harder to run bicycle chop shops in shelters too.

Re: Statement on Visit to the USA by Professor Philip Alston

#20

Post by downandout »

"The proposed tax reform package stakes out America’s bid to become the most unequal society in the world, and will greatly increase the already high levels of wealth and income inequality between the richest 1% and the poorest 50% of Americans....It is against this background that my report is presented."

It's interesting that he is a law professor (not an economics professor) and yet he stated this as if it were incontrovertible fact, with no facts to back up his prediction, and then went on to base much of the rest of his report on it. That statement may turn out to be true, and it may turn out to be false, but it is certainly not settled fact.

It renders this entire report meaningless, as it is based on nothing more than speculation on the part of a clearly biased author about what the outcome of recent tax policy changes will be.

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