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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#761

Post by sseveran »

projectileboy wrote: post #637
sseveran wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mrs. Clinton won college educated voters by 9 percentage points which is not exactly a super majority. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trump...

You're not wrong, but in an election at the national level, 9 points is normally considered a pretty big spread (for example, Obama's victory over McCain in 2008 was pretty solid, and that was by a 7 point margin).

It is a good sized spread. I do think there is more interesting things going on there if you really start pulling the data apart. Although there is no technical definition of super majority that applies to all cases I like the 66% number which would imply you are twice as likely to meet someone from group A as opposed to group B if everything was random. Others of course can have their own definition of what a super majority is.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#762

Post by PeterMikhailov »

dragonwriter wrote: post #517
PeterMikhailov wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What welfare? Welfare got repealed by Bill Clinton in the 90s. Can you point to this welfare you speak of?

> Welfare got repealed by Bill Clinton in the 90s. AFDC got replaced with the more restrictive TANF as the primary federal-funded welfare program in the 1990s by the Republican Congress with Clinton’s support, but welfare was not repealed.

I'm going to quote from the TANF wikipedia page here:

"There is a maximum of 60 months of benefits within one's lifetime, but some states have instituted shorter periods."

Many Americans think you can collect welfare payments, which are about $300 per person, depending on the state, in perpetuity.

That's just not true.

I still wonder where this 'welfare' system is that people think exist.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#763

Post by FeepingCreature »

api wrote: post #758
FeepingCreature wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that is true. Nonetheless, I don't respect the methodology of many of the people who hold #3 in that it does not seem to me like they're fighting #2 in ways that are sensitive to truth. Just because somebody's opponents are biased doesn't mean they aren't. Note that I am not saying that #3 is not the case! I'm saying that I personally have not been given reliable reason to believe #3 over #2, or reason to beli…

I agree with your last statement. The methods of the modern left are not effective and in some cases are as unjust and biased as the things they attempt to counter. I also don't totally reject the notion that biology can explain differences in outcome. I just think that explanation should be a last resort after the far more likely causes of bias, random path dependency, and perverse incentives and feedback loops are…

Seems fair.

I guess I tend to come down more on the nature side of nature vs. culture, but I definitely think that the possibilities you listed are entirely plausible and I'm definitely open to being convinced with well-designed, at-least-not-obviously-partisan studies.

(Amusingly, depending on what language you use, blaming "compiler bug" first when your program crashes can actually be surprisingly credible. Languages like D, for instance, which combine a strong type system with a homebrew backend overburdened with features, make it a lot more plausible than you'd think.)

I entirely agree that neither of those are existential struggles, but we still have to rank them. Personally, I'd rather lose feminist progress than liberal progress, because a liberal, open-minded society will make it a lot easier for feminism to regain ground. What good if we win equality-of-outcome, if it loses us the soul of equal rights? I believe that we ought to think that #3 if #3 is true, and that we ought to think that #2 if #2 is true. To do this, we have to be able to discern truth without bias.

Inasmuch as #3 is true, free thought and civil discourse is its ally in whole.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#764

Post by TheCoelacanth »

Chris2048 wrote: post #732
biocomputation wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but Mozilla can't attract/keep great LGBTQ employees if the CEO believes that it is okay to actively oppress LGBTQ employees. By extension, this also extends to heterosexual employees who have LGBTQ friends and family members, or to any potential employees who believe in LGBTQ equality. ( And before anyone thinks that 'oppress' is too strong a word, the inability to marry caused tax and inheritance implication…

Oppress is still too strong. There is an a implications to everything. Have an opinion on healthcare, and someone might die according to you preferred version of it. He participated within the political system, he did not "[believe] that it is okay to actively oppress LGBTQ employees", except, in your interpretation, by participating in the political system. This extends to "any potential employees who believe in LGB…

Few if any CEOs employ any fetuses, so there is little chance that they could create a hostile work (which they are legally required not to do) for any employees by opposing fetal rights. The same can not be said for a CEO who opposes LGBTQ rights.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#765

Post by leereeves »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #757
leereeves wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The End of Men ... What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end... > the rules intended to protect victims of sexual assault mean students have lost their right to due process https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-un... > professor Bret Weinstein refused to comply with students interested in 'social justice'…

> > The End of Men ... What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end... . It's a complete mischaracterization to call that celebrating the end of men. If anything it is worrying about it.

I'd call it descriptive. I cite it because I like The Atlantic and because I think it's one of the more balanced articles on the subject.

It covers both sides of the story, including people who seem to be celebrating.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#766

Post by pandaman »

andybak wrote: post #386
shard972 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice you didn't include Alt-right in there which at the moment seem to be political ideology on a big rise and in my personal opinion, I think it's generally less radical than communism. Consider though that one thing the alt-right will never accept is that racial diversity in the workplace is a net positive in itself. Whether it's true or false, it's just apart of the parcel. Now how would someone like that feel…

> being against racial diversity is racist That made me stop and think. I'm trying to imagine a picture of someone who is against racial diversity but isn't remotely racist and whilst I agree there's no logical contradiction inherent in that position I do struggle to think of a realistic portrait of such an individual. I might be missing something here but can you spell out this position for me in a bit more detail?…

As people bring up Asian countries in other comments, I think they miss the point. For all I know Chinese could as well be racists as some comments say.

However, consider this: blood type is important in Asia yet most people in the USA do not even know their blood type so, we could conclude it's not important here. Now, imagine a movement to force blood type diversity took root in the American tech. Then, would it be still hard for you to picture someone who does not believe that the blood type diversity is a good in itself yet is not a "burahara"-type bigot who thinks the B-type people are inferior?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#767

Post by TheCoelacanth »

djrogers wrote: post #309
twblalock wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know "normal" Republicans as well. I was using libertarianism as an example of an extreme on the political spectrum, as I used socialism as the opposite extreme. At my last job, several employees openly supported Trump, and they didn't suffer any consequences.

Libertarian views are far less extreme in many ways than modern Republican views, and often align rather closely with progressive/democrat views. In fact, the libertarian ethos evolved from classic liberalism, including support of LGBT issues, racial and gender equality, and a largely non-interventionist global view.

Republican-voting libertarians are in some ways worse than normal Republicans. Unlike normal Republicans who simply don't believe that their policies are violating people's rights, Republican-voting libertarians freely admit that the policies they are supporting (their stated position is against the policies, but they still support them with their votes) violate people's right, but they go along with them so that they can get a tax break.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#768

Post by astura »

peoplewindow wrote: post #688
astura wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this new conservative victimhood mentality absolutely fascinating. I know someone who is a self described conservative who thinks he's being persecuted by society because of, of all things, having children. Not a ton of children, mind you, and not ones he can't afford, and not out of wedlock. Having children is literally the most socially acceptable thing you can do amongst almost all political ideologies. Its…

Why don't you ask him why he thinks that, instead of writing it off? I agree it seems odd to believe that anyone could be against having children. But the world is full of large groups of people who hold odd and unsubstantiated opinions. Perhaps he's met people who really do look down on him for having kids. Perhaps he's stumbled across a group of old fashioned Malthusians who think children = population growth = des…

I'm not automatically dismissing him, none of that reflects the reality of his existence, he's seeing things that aren't there, presumably because he wants to feel like a victim. Not only that but he doesn't ever stop talking about it, literally every conversation ends up being how the liberal elites are out to get him for some really stupid reason.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#769

Post by TheCoelacanth »

telchar wrote: post #618
dcow wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. What would you suggest instead?

That's a fair question. After a bit of thought the best I could come up with are, depending on situation: driven to professional exile ridden out on a [digital] rail digital skimmington pilloried [digitally/professionally] tarred and feathered

How about simply "fired" or maybe for cases that go beyond being excluded from a single job "blacklisted". Those examples are all very hyperbolic, albeit less so than "lynched".

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#770

Post by TheCoelacanth »

leereeves wrote: post #765
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > The End of Men ... What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end... . It's a complete mischaracterization to call that celebrating the end of men. If anything it is worrying about it.

I'd call it descriptive. I cite it because I like The Atlantic and because I think it's one of the more balanced articles on the subject. It covers both sides of the story, including people who seem to be celebrating.

You'll have to be more specific. I'm struggling to find even a single paragraph that I would consider celebratory.
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