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A secret on the ocean floor

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#31

Post by JoeAltmaier »

specialist wrote: post #29
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I'm not sure its at all significant. Whether the fish has sand or plastic fragments in its gut may be immaterial. This issue has been fastened onto by well-meaning folks without much study. Perversely, the fact that many fish have micro beads in them is encouraging - they clearly are surviving and reproducing despite the beads (or we wouldn't be finding them in such large numbers).

So, not a big fan of the hippocratic oath (precautionary principle)? I really don’t know how to respond to denial, whatsboutism, selective incredulity. Mostly, I give up. But know that when obstructionists finally get a clue, I’m fresh out of goodwill, and won’t be helping. Good luck.

Sure, be cautious. But about what? Which things?

Talk about isms, the tendency of the popular press to latch onto big obvious things and say "What about microplastic beads?!" Its something folks can see and get behind. Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem.

We have a limited fund of energy, emotional and productive. To spend it on microplastic beads may well be the right direction. But is surely takes attention away from things that ARE definitely a problem.

I'm not some Pollyanna ignorant person that's deliberately denying science or whatever. Just the opposite.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#32

Post by JoeAltmaier »

oldcynic wrote: post #30
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I'm not sure its at all significant. Whether the fish has sand or plastic fragments in its gut may be immaterial. This issue has been fastened onto by well-meaning folks without much study. Perversely, the fact that many fish have micro beads in them is encouraging - they clearly are surviving and reproducing despite the beads (or we wouldn't be finding them in such large numbers).

That seems quite the stretch. We don't know enough of the long term consequences of them in fish, or if there is any genetic damage. Or of chemicals concentrating as they move up the food chain, eventually to us. To me that is very discouraging. We should be trying to find out consequences before we dump millions of tonnes and find plastic strewn over uninhabited beaches and micro beads in most oceanic life. We shoul…

Sure, that's a good idea. But we're doing a million things every day, and tiny plastic beads are just one thing. And maybe not even a damaging thing.

I think we could attend to things that are provably a problem. That way, we're actually doing good. Instead of just playing a game of 'ecological theatre' .

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#34

Post by whicks »

marcosdumay wrote: post #27
jacquesm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you meant that sarcastically. https://www.google.com/search?q=rio+tinto+environmental+dama... For just one example. Resource extractors of all kinds are among the worlds biggest polluters and destroyers of habitats and entire eco systems.

I don't think there is any other interpretation possible for the GP. I don't think we should adopt the habit of postpending a "\s" everywhere, at least not on HN.

I agree wtr to the GP, but in general I disagree. You can never really be certain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#35

Post by specialist »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #31
specialist wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, not a big fan of the hippocratic oath (precautionary principle)? I really don’t know how to respond to denial, whatsboutism, selective incredulity. Mostly, I give up. But know that when obstructionists finally get a clue, I’m fresh out of goodwill, and won’t be helping. Good luck.

Sure, be cautious. But about what? Which things? Talk about isms, the tendency of the popular press to latch onto big obvious things and say "What about microplastic beads?!" Its something folks can see and get behind. Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem. We have a limited fund of energy, emotional and productive. To spend it on microplastic beads may well be the right direction. But is surely…

"Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem."

What measure of proof do you require, to convince you that it's a problem worthy of your attention?

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#36

Post by ianai »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #32
oldcynic wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems quite the stretch. We don't know enough of the long term consequences of them in fish, or if there is any genetic damage. Or of chemicals concentrating as they move up the food chain, eventually to us. To me that is very discouraging. We should be trying to find out consequences before we dump millions of tonnes and find plastic strewn over uninhabited beaches and micro beads in most oceanic life. We shoul…

Sure, that's a good idea. But we're doing a million things every day, and tiny plastic beads are just one thing. And maybe not even a damaging thing. I think we could attend to things that are provably a problem. That way, we're actually doing good. Instead of just playing a game of 'ecological theatre' .

This really is a proven problem. Plastic doesn’t enter into the ocean in isolation. It’s dumped with all the other environmental, health damaging chemicals, metals, and etc. Humankind is not taking care of its waste and it’s destroying the weather cycles, climate, and ecosystems.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#37

Post by parametrek »

Pigo wrote: post #15

"Bram Murton, a geologist with the UK’s National Oceanography Centre, says that if all the cars on Europe’s roads are electric by 2040, and if they use the same kind of batteries as the Tesla Model 3, that would require 28 times more cobalt than is produced right now." "At the moment more than 60% of all cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo. For decades allegations of corruption and human rights abuses…

There are plenty of other lithium ion chemistries that use no cobalt. If push comes to shove we use them instead. I already use LiFePO4 everywhere I can.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#38

Post by TaylorAlexander »

parametrek wrote: post #37
Pigo wrote: post #15

"Bram Murton, a geologist with the UK’s National Oceanography Centre, says that if all the cars on Europe’s roads are electric by 2040, and if they use the same kind of batteries as the Tesla Model 3, that would require 28 times more cobalt than is produced right now." "At the moment more than 60% of all cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo. For decades allegations of corruption and human rights abuses…

There are plenty of other lithium ion chemistries that use no cobalt. If push comes to shove we use them instead. I already use LiFePO4 everywhere I can.

But LiFePO4 has much lower energy density right? So not great for cars or airplanes.

Re: A secret on the ocean floor

#40

Post by adventured »

lawlessone wrote: post #16
jacobush wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you put a thought I just can't get out of my head. Trump?

> Trump If that's the case it's not going well.

He got the Presidency, a massive spending increase for the military, corporate tax cuts, net neutrality abolished, as well as further espionage enhancements signed into law. It's going tremendously well.
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