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The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

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Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#11

Post by Arnt »

eesmith wrote: post #7
M_Bakhtiari wrote: post #2

In some ultra-low power distance societies, places like Sweden, the idea that anyone, no matter how important, is ever entitled to an assistant or secretary is almost anathema. Imagine if von Neumann had been required to do all of that in addition to making his own airline and hotel reservations, as is the case for many university professors these days.

Could you confirm that first statement? That is, when I visited Sweden for a consulting job about 15 years ago, there was definitely a secretary for the group I visited. She helped organize the paperwork for the visit, booked my hotel and taxi, etc. The word for secretary in Swedish is "sekreterare", and a search of the Uppsala University domain find things like https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y…

There was a secretary for the group, not for any one professor.

If you'd visited in, say, 1925 the professors in the group might've had one secretary each.

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#12

Post by pm215 »

danieltillett wrote: post #3

The original this is taken from is better [0]. 0. https://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/upload_library/2...

Mmm. In particular it notes that (a) in previous years the assistant had been only expected to do the first two parts of the job description and (b) after Lorch turned it down they ended up dividing the work between four assistants. So it's more of an example of an over-ambitious job description than the reality of being an assistant to von Neumann...

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#13

Post by narag »

mseebach wrote: post #8
M_Bakhtiari wrote: post #2

In some ultra-low power distance societies, places like Sweden, the idea that anyone, no matter how important, is ever entitled to an assistant or secretary is almost anathema. Imagine if von Neumann had been required to do all of that in addition to making his own airline and hotel reservations, as is the case for many university professors these days.

The idea that anyone is entitled to a secretary, that a secretary is a kind of status symbol, is rightfully falling out of fashion, and not just in Sweden. But it's not being replaced by nothing, it being replaced by (non-personal) function staff that offloads specific tasks. The department has student relations officers that deal with scheduling, enrollment, tracking grades etc, the university has a travel office, e…

replaced by (non-personal) function staff that offloads specific tasks

And it's more practical since it works even if people in those positions gets sick or are away for holidays.

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#14

Post by eesmith »

Arnt wrote: post #11
eesmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you confirm that first statement? That is, when I visited Sweden for a consulting job about 15 years ago, there was definitely a secretary for the group I visited. She helped organize the paperwork for the visit, booked my hotel and taxi, etc. The word for secretary in Swedish is "sekreterare", and a search of the Uppsala University domain find things like https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y…

There was a secretary for the group, not for any one professor. If you'd visited in, say, 1925 the professors in the group might've had one secretary each.

Certainly there's a trend away from private secretaries.

But the original statement was specifically about "ultra-low power distance societies, places like Sweden", and the process you mention is also taking place in the US, which (I believe) is not in that category.

Moreover, the statement added "the idea that anyone, no matter how important, is ever entitled to an assistant or secretary is almost anathema [in Sweden]." Yet I easily found a job position for a personal secretary.

That's why I would like a confirmation that M_Bakhtiari's observation is based on something stronger than hearsay or an assumption of how Sweden compares to not-as-low-power distance societies like the US.

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#15

Post by beojan »

Arnt wrote: post #11
eesmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you confirm that first statement? That is, when I visited Sweden for a consulting job about 15 years ago, there was definitely a secretary for the group I visited. She helped organize the paperwork for the visit, booked my hotel and taxi, etc. The word for secretary in Swedish is "sekreterare", and a search of the Uppsala University domain find things like https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y…

There was a secretary for the group, not for any one professor. If you'd visited in, say, 1925 the professors in the group might've had one secretary each.

That has more to do with those secretaries being replaced by computers than anything else. When everyone can type, and mistakes are easily corrected, you don't need people whose only job is to type anymore.

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#16

Post by jacquesm »

raverbashing wrote: post #9

While academia is a place of good ideas and discussions, the power-distance and the use of students as very cheap labour with the promise of a higher place of importance someday is a dark side of it Low skilled workers are treated better and more fairly than Graduate Students in a lot of occasions

Academia is stuck in the past in that sense. And it is already hurting them in quite a few disciplines where 'being published' is great but trumped by 'being able to afford a normal life'. So it filters out people that are willing to put their lives on hold in order to have their names at the top of a couple of papers. Some of them find that the lives they put on hold can not be put together again after a decade.

Graduate students are as a rule underpaid, overworked and if they're unlucky harassed to boot and all that for the privilege of having someone else then finally take most or even all of the credit for all the hard work.

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#17

Post by jonathanstrange »

jacquesm wrote: post #16
raverbashing wrote: post #9

While academia is a place of good ideas and discussions, the power-distance and the use of students as very cheap labour with the promise of a higher place of importance someday is a dark side of it Low skilled workers are treated better and more fairly than Graduate Students in a lot of occasions

Academia is stuck in the past in that sense. And it is already hurting them in quite a few disciplines where 'being published' is great but trumped by 'being able to afford a normal life'. So it filters out people that are willing to put their lives on hold in order to have their names at the top of a couple of papers. Some of them find that the lives they put on hold can not be put together again after a decade. Gra…

Academia is similar to many other fields in that you roughly get what you pay for. That doesn't mean you can't save some money here or there or that money is not wasted here or there, but as a rule of thumb this generally holds.

My biggest quirk about the universities and institutes I've worked for so far is not the way they deal with grad students or postdocs, it's about seemingly 'unimportant' issues. Things like large, noisy, shared offices, lack of whiteboards, unnecessary bureaucracy, and lack of paid linguistic editing. At universities money tends to be saved at the wrong end, private businesses are much better at creating productive environments. Especially the constant lack of office space is hampering productivity. The priorities tend to be wrong (outside of a few centers of excellence), focused on getting as many researchers as possible. Instead they should spend a bit less on human resources and a bit more on a good work environment.

At least that's my personal experience and opinion.

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#18

Post by arcanus »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #17
jacquesm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is stuck in the past in that sense. And it is already hurting them in quite a few disciplines where 'being published' is great but trumped by 'being able to afford a normal life'. So it filters out people that are willing to put their lives on hold in order to have their names at the top of a couple of papers. Some of them find that the lives they put on hold can not be put together again after a decade. Gra…

Academia is similar to many other fields in that you roughly get what you pay for. That doesn't mean you can't save some money here or there or that money is not wasted here or there, but as a rule of thumb this generally holds. My biggest quirk about the universities and institutes I've worked for so far is not the way they deal with grad students or postdocs, it's about seemingly 'unimportant' issues. Things like l…

Moving from a top research group to a fortune 500 company just last year, I couldn't agree with you more.

I had great resources in some places (access to the finest minds in my field, for example) and was completely hamstrung in others (a hard salary cap as an assistant researcher, extreme difficulty getting a new whiteboard installed in my office, etc)

Industry isn't perfect either but seems to be better at recognizing that researchers are best used in the role they were trained for and not doing ancillary work.

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#19

Post by gumby »

What they don't tell you is that at the Institute for Advanced Study the poor assistant had to use the same filing cabinet for his list of duties, to do list, and all of Von Neumann's correspondence and papers.

While up at Harvard the assistants were given separate cabinets to make their lives easier. But woe betide the poor assistant who tried to put a file in the wrong cabinet!

Re: The duties of John von Neumann's assistant (1993)

#20

Post by jacquesm »

arcanus wrote: post #18
jonathanstrange wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is similar to many other fields in that you roughly get what you pay for. That doesn't mean you can't save some money here or there or that money is not wasted here or there, but as a rule of thumb this generally holds. My biggest quirk about the universities and institutes I've worked for so far is not the way they deal with grad students or postdocs, it's about seemingly 'unimportant' issues. Things like l…

Moving from a top research group to a fortune 500 company just last year, I couldn't agree with you more. I had great resources in some places (access to the finest minds in my field, for example) and was completely hamstrung in others (a hard salary cap as an assistant researcher, extreme difficulty getting a new whiteboard installed in my office, etc) Industry isn't perfect either but seems to be better at recogniz…

How is the money?
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