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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#671

Post by DoreenMichele »

otterley wrote: post #668
DoreenMichele wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it isn't actually that simple. Since WW2, the vast majority of our financing mechanisms and housing policy has been aimed at creating family housing because that was what the parents of the Baby Boomers wanted and needed. Meanwhile, our population has diversified away from that. Plus there are myriad zoning policies, tax policies etc at all levels of government that are pieces of the puzzle for how SF…

To say that matters are complex is not really helpful, though. We must demand our representatives break down these barriers and eliminate complexity. The infill argument is totally bogus. The majority of the Financial District, which is where the majority of high rises are today, is on the very same infill you claim cannot support high rise structures. Singapore is largely infill and is mostly high rises. Tokyo is ve…

No, I stated clearly that I generally agree that building more housing would help. I don't agree that the problem is entirely political.

Characterizing my comment as merely making excuses and being part of the problem is not good faith engagement. I am bowing out now.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#672

Post by Fins »

bsder wrote: post #666
Fins wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Damore receive threats of physical violence? And he's no Thiel by any stretch of imagination.

I don't see anything obvious with a quick Google search, and anybody complaining about that seems to start throwing around words like "antifa" so my skepticism and troll alerts are on maximum. HOWEVER , Damore is a REALLY good example of the kind nitwit snowflake that deserves all the approbation he is receiving. If you are sitting in a corporation and are about to do something that is going to cause political shockw…

Evidence in Damore's lawsuit has some rather interesting tidbits about antifa, but while they are not very nice people at all, they are not really relevant to this discussion, I think. It also has evidence of physicasl threats. Those made it to the recently dropped/dismissed NLRB complaint, and it seems (was mentioned in a thread on HM, for sure) that peple involved had received very stern slaps on their wrists.

Now, Damore may not be a very nice person himself (he did go to work for Google of his own free will, after all), but he did a) what Google asked him to do -- provided feedback on some corporate training that he was forced to attend. He backed it with some arguments that while not necessarily water-tight and incontroversible, were stronger than any debunkings of his memo that I have seen, which mostly amounted to calling it "pathetic bleatings" and claiming that it is wrong because it could not possibly be right.

Saying "you are a terrible person and I will hound you until one of us gets fired" or somesuch is not quite "handing him his head". If anything, it conmfirms that Damore is probably more right than his detractors. So while it certainly might have made sense for him to shut up, make a Cultural Revoluition style confession and keep his job. But faulting him for being fireed over a memo that he didn't leak and that is, if anything, far more reasonable than many an action that seems to be accepted at Google (viz. the story of Corey Altheide).

I just don't see how he is a big snowflake here.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#673

Post by DrScump »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #641
otterley wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very easy to contemplate how to solve this problem: make it easy to build extremely dense housing in SF. The problem is that the powers that be don’t want to make it easier, and they all have ultimately self serving excuses as to why. Every time a politician tells me more housing won’t make it cheaper, I posit the hypothetical “what if we built 100,000 more units? No? How about 1 million more? 5 million more?” T…

Unfortunately, it isn't actually that simple. Since WW2, the vast majority of our financing mechanisms and housing policy has been aimed at creating family housing because that was what the parents of the Baby Boomers wanted and needed. Meanwhile, our population has diversified away from that. Plus there are myriad zoning policies, tax policies etc at all levels of government that are pieces of the puzzle for how SF…

  San Francisco proper is physically much smaller than New York City, 231 sq. miles vs 468.
In fact, San Francisco measures only 47 square miles. And that's if you round upward.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#674

Post by zebnyc »

jfaucett wrote: post #214
cowmix wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these people want to know what it is like to be "stifled" in the workplace, be an atheist or lefty in Texas.

Really? (warning anecdotes :), When I lived in the south east (Alabama / Georgia), I didn't notice any stifling because I was an atheist. Sure, you had to deal with people's super religious fundamentalist beliefs which got expressed all the time, but my barrage of dissenting opinions didn't get any backlash, except for the "prayer for my lost soul" which did happen on occasion.

To add my 2 cents, I was employed in Macon, Georgia by a small software firm around the time the Bush administrating was drumming up support to attack Iraq. I was opposed to it and let my feelings be known amongst my colleagues. My colleagues would agree with my POV, go home and then come back the next day and attack me. The cycle repeated itself a few times before I realized they were going home to Fox News everyday. Unfortunately for me, I discussed these opinions in the cafetaria. When they downsized a short while later, I was the first one to be let go. Since then I never discuss politics at work, even with folks I trust,

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#675

Post by DoreenMichele »

DrScump wrote: post #673
DoreenMichele wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it isn't actually that simple. Since WW2, the vast majority of our financing mechanisms and housing policy has been aimed at creating family housing because that was what the parents of the Baby Boomers wanted and needed. Meanwhile, our population has diversified away from that. Plus there are myriad zoning policies, tax policies etc at all levels of government that are pieces of the puzzle for how SF…

San Francisco proper is physically much smaller than New York City, 231 sq. miles vs 468. In fact, San Francisco measures only 47 square miles . And that's if you round upward.

Thanks. I did a quick Google and was surprised at the figure. Yours makes much more sense.

From Wikipedia:

City and county 231.89 sq mi (600.59 km2)

• Land 46.89 sq mi (121.46 km2)

• Water 185.00 sq mi (479.14 km2)

So both figures are correct from some perspective, but yours is the more relevant for purposes of talking about building stuff.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#676

Post by [deleted] »

door3 wrote: post #45
jstewartmobile wrote: post #2

I hate to have sympathy for the devil here, but I see their point. Hackernews is living proof. Pre-election, you could voice a contrary opinion here and have a discussion. Post-election, even the faintest wrongthink shibboleth gets silently downvoted into oblivion.

I was shadowbanned for getting downvoted too much for saying James Damore had terrible sexist opinions and should have been fired. Hackernews is predominantly right wing & conservative.

[deleted]

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#677

Post by [deleted] »

wz1000 wrote: post #281
sho wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you just said. Care to provide me with your promised definition of what "far-left" means?

"far-left" doesn't mean any singular thing, but a few characteristics I can think of are: - Rejection of capitalism and private property - Opposition to all forms of social hierarchy - Rejection of electoral and reformist politics - Revolutionary, often militant program - Explicitly communist or anarchist in nature

[deleted]

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#678

Post by dcow »

wpietri wrote: post #660
dcow wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. My apologies if I implied this only happens on "the left". There's a lot of context in this thread so I didn't feel the need to caveat. However, "social lynching" is not an absurd term. While everyone has a right to express their opinion and face the consequences thereof, social lynching occurs when people mob together and demand, pressure, or otherwise effectively execute physical consequences for a u…

I still think this term is ridiculous. You still haven't given any indication that you underand the weight of the term "lynching". If you'd like to, maybe start with this slim book, which I found sobering: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0933121180 The only example I can think of where someone lost their job due to a donation was Brendan Eich, whose political cause was changing the constitution to strip a civil rig…

> I still think this term is ridiculous

I'm trying to think of a better term. The point is the concept. And in my defense the Wikipedia definition aligns with my usage of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching.

> The only example I can think of where someone lost their job due to a donation was Brendan Eich

Yeah that was just an example. Another similar scenario I can think of off the top of my head: the president of the University of Missouri was coerced into resigning because he said something that equated to, "I don't believe in institutional racism".

I'm not trying to paint doom and gloom or anything I was responding with the counter argument to, "intolerance wants a voice", which is (naturally by now), "only an intolerant person would condone silencing in the first place".

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#679

Post by harshreality »

scarface74 wrote: post #575
manfredo wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These terms are ambiguous and have fluid meaning. But in general, anything on the Republican party platform, or supported by a substantial portion of Republicans or self-identified conservatives, is something I would consider part of mainstream conservatism. Quick examples include: * That affirmative action should be illegal or more heavily restricted. * That unlawful residents should be removed from the country, eve…

Until Trump, you never heard the anti-immigration, anti-trade rhetoric from mainstream elected conservatives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYu7xlnT8rA

You can find similar clips from Hillary and Schumer, just not from this decade.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#680

Post by [deleted] »

door3 wrote: post #97
alexashka wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's the strange notion that having an opinion that doesn't hurt anyone should lead to getting fired that's the problem... The irony is not obvious so here it is: You want Damore to be ex-communicated from Google, for having an opinion you disagree with. People of HackerNews have decided to ex-communicate YOU, for having an opinion they disagree with. (Assuming that's what happened on HackerNews, and not that y…

My values aren't "everyone should be able to say everything in every space everywhere without any consequence!", and I don't think even the most radical free speech libertarian would believe that. In either hackernews or at Google, if you started arguing for Holocaust denial, you can bet you wouldn't last long, no matter how hard you defend yourself with "free speech". In all spaces, there are rules of acceptable and…

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