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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#381
post #356
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that (1) politics is multi-dimensional, (2) trans-issues are far too unimportant for Trump to actually care about and (3) US has good enough legal system that there's approximately 0 chance that Trump can actually do anything agains trans people (I mean he can't even manage to ban foreign Muslims).

I don't realize or agree with any of this. As a black person, I can tell you that it's been untrue for our community so I don't think it different for the trans community.

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#382
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As non-american, living outside of america (but having lived there for a year and a half starting January 2000), I concur. I still follow american politics quite a bit (too much for me to remain healthy actually) and I'm constantly bamboozled trying to comprehend what people mean by the "far left". To me it seems like any one is considered "far left" if they believe in: - treating all people, regardless of race, gend…

That's the thing, that's pretty damn central in the US too. The problem is that's not good enough for some people. In the US, legally, we treat everyone equal. However, we're (in theory) a meritocratic society based on survival of the fittest. The modern "far left" ideology is interested in equal outcomes for everyone and defines any statistical dependencies they perceive, and anyone who doesn't support correcting th…

> we're (in theory) a meritocratic society based on survival of the fittest

Citation needed. There are elements of meritocracy in most systems, but I don't think that's the defining feature of what we (the US) "are".

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but there are no far left parties in the USA to vote for.

As non-american, living outside of america (but having lived there for a year and a half starting January 2000), I concur. I still follow american politics quite a bit (too much for me to remain healthy actually) and I'm constantly bamboozled trying to comprehend what people mean by the "far left". To me it seems like any one is considered "far left" if they believe in: - treating all people, regardless of race, gend…

I don't think those beliefs are far-left, I believe what makes beliefs far-left is the conclusions that are drawn from them are typically to reduce the freedom of the governed to achieve those objectives:

- Treat all people equally, and legislate that outcomes are the same for all groups of people

- Believe in the science of climate change and legislate reductions programs which incentivize offshoring manufacturing (but don't put any constraints on global trade)

- Mass murders are caused by guns and that outweighs all advantages of civilian gun ownership, and there's no other way to solve the problem, so it should be banned

- The more you earn, the more tax you should pay, so if your economic output is really high you should hide your money in other countries and signal your virtue on other fronts so people forgive you for being a tax cheat

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know "normal" Republicans as well. I was using libertarianism as an example of an extreme on the political spectrum, as I used socialism as the opposite extreme. At my last job, several employees openly supported Trump, and they didn't suffer any consequences.

Libertarian views are far less extreme in many ways than modern Republican views, and often align rather closely with progressive/democrat views. In fact, the libertarian ethos evolved from classic liberalism, including support of LGBT issues, racial and gender equality, and a largely non-interventionist global view.

Tell that to the libertarians of Las Vegas.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#385
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political views are relative. I could say that there are no hard-right parties in Europe (with mainstream ideals - I'm ignoring the fascist parties).

Fn in France and AfD in Germany are firmly right, and it seems perverse to ignore fascist parties like Jobbik and others considering their relative electoral success, even if you believe that to be a flash in the pan. I spend a good deal of time worrying about this international drift.

How right are the non-fascist parties relative to the right in the US? That was my point.

For example, is there any right wing party advocating eliminating universal healthcare?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#386
post #169

I don't get it. I grew up in Silicon Valley and I work in tech, and so do many other people I know. They run the gamut from far-left socialists to libertarians to own a bunch of guns. They have all kinds of ethnic backgrounds and religious views. Some of my most libertarian/pro-gun friends have not been shy about their political views and it hasn't hurt their tech careers at all. They are far more welcome here than l…

I notice you didn't include Alt-right in there which at the moment seem to be political ideology on a big rise and in my personal opinion, I think it's generally less radical than communism. Consider though that one thing the alt-right will never accept is that racial diversity in the workplace is a net positive in itself. Whether it's true or false, it's just apart of the parcel. Now how would someone like that feel…

> being against racial diversity is racist

That made me stop and think. I'm trying to imagine a picture of someone who is against racial diversity but isn't remotely racist and whilst I agree there's no logical contradiction inherent in that position I do struggle to think of a realistic portrait of such an individual.

I might be missing something here but can you spell out this position for me in a bit more detail? I'm genuinely interested as I wonder if my definition of "racist" or my definition of "against racial diversity" might be different to yours.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't get it either, especially the "feeling alienated" part. Does that include being feted and having a respectful discussion with your liberal friend and old colleague, Reid Hoffman, on the Stanford campus on Jan. 31 of this year, moderated by a very sympathetic Niall Ferguson? With laudatory words and praise from the President and Provost? https://news.stanford.edu/2018/02/01/cardinal-conversation-r... Look…

This article isn't just about Peter Thiel, it's about tech workers in general. Not everyone has the luxury of being a billionaire, and knowing that they live comfortably for the rest of their lives even if they become unemployable. The sentiments expressed by quotes in this article: > People in Silicon Valley “openly lie to one another out of fear of losing their jobs or being publicly crucified..." > Sometimes Silic…

Same, as another founder. And same, I would consider myself pretty liberal. Pro choice, anti military-industrial complex, anti prison complex, pro legalization, sex positive, pro gay marriage, pro universal healthcare, against church and state coupling, non-climate change denier, pro science, yada yada, you name it.

Admittedly, I don't even like the term "conservative", like Naval would say, pinning labels onto yourself only forces you into static positions that you end up having to defend, even if you don't 100% buy into them.

I simply happen to have certain stances and ideas that are in opposition to the mainstream thought of SV. As much as I'd love to discuss them, potentially learning more about them myself and (gasp!) even changing my mind in the process, I'm not comfortable doing it. There's a high chance I will be immediately labeled as "racist / sexist / bigot / white supremacist / [fill in the blank]" for even contemplating disagreement on these topics (let's take "diversity" or how we're handling it as a society as an example) without any supporting evidence.

Unfortunately, as of today, bigoteering has 0% burden on the person making the accusation and 100% of the weight put on the accused. It's always safe to call someone a witch, but proving them wrong in one's defense is nigh impossible.

Ironically, the most open minded and considerate conversations about diversity that I've ever had were with black coworkers. I've learned plenty from them, changed my stance several times, realized I didn't know that much before.

The worst were almost always with overrepresented majorities who were "stepping in to speak up for their less-advantaged brethren". I've never learned anything from them on the topics they were so zealous about. It's the diversity version of "white knighting".

It's hard not to become jaded and assume that most people in this latter category don't actually care, and just want to establish themselves at the top of the moral hierarchy through vacuous virtue signaling. It's disappointing.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#388
I agree with people that say that SV is an echo chamber. I'm software eng., and found it very hard for a year before election to work there. Happy to explain if someone cares to know. It is a bit hard when people on left were told: 'you are smart to vote left' - they just talk down to me. I'll give you one example, on TV, they had a right wing person getting egged - I'm sure most here saw the news/video. And I had friends I knew for years call me racists. Scary. Etc. After the election - it got worse. So I left SV for NY. I understand if right wing leaves, I know now what it is to be hated. I think you should ashamed - there is no way right wing would treat you that way. (ex: See x-TYT video of Red Pill Black - let me know if you can't find it )

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#389
post #224
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these people want to know what it is like to be "stifled" in the workplace, be an atheist or lefty in Texas.

Do you live/work in Texas? The big cities (Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio) are overwhelmingly liberal.

They are also full of people who fled small Texas towns to get away from stifling religious upbringings.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#390
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but really the point isn't about me. The point is the dominant opinion on Hackernews is "James Damore was right!" or at least "James Damore made some good points", which, whether you believe it or not, is absolutely a right-wing, conservative opinion, not the kind of "liberal SV PC culture" that is supposedly dominant and oppressive.

>The point is the dominant opinion on Hackernews is "James Damore was right!" or at least "James Damore made some good points", Uh, that's not my impression. My impression is that the pro-Damore posters say he should not have been fired for the views he expressed. And they're not the dominant opinion; rather it seems neither the pro- or anti-Damore opinions are dominant.

I recall several articles defending the “women are biologically inferior at tech, it’s science” position on the front page.
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