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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#361

Post by door3 »

alexashka wrote: post #338
door3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My values aren't "everyone should be able to say everything in every space everywhere without any consequence!", and I don't think even the most radical free speech libertarian would believe that. In either hackernews or at Google, if you started arguing for Holocaust denial, you can bet you wouldn't last long, no matter how hard you defend yourself with "free speech". In all spaces, there are rules of acceptable and…

The justice warrior echo chamber is strong... It's hard to reply to justice warrior-talk without being incredibly condescending. Can you slow down for one minute and define what you mean by 'equality of all people'? We have 2 genders, not 1, might be a good starting point. Let's follow that up with how you know what all people want out of life, that you want them liberated from systems of whatever? Or you're interest…

Well there’s more than 2 genders but that’s another issue. The point is we live in a male-dominated society where men have controlled a majority of political and economic power since this country’s inception. In terms of gender, here’s a few policy proposals:

-financial compensation for housework/child-rearing -reduced hours for the primary caregiver at the same level of salary after childbirth (usually the woman) -equal pay for women mandated by law (pass the ERA) -much stronger policies against sexual harassment -more women in positions of power -full subsidy for menstruation products & birth control -paid maternity leave for all workers -universal healthcare -comprehensive sex positive and consent focused sex education in public schools

I could go on, but the main point is men & male society control politics, science, the economy, etc, so the whole society is predominantly oriented around men. A lot of shifts are more cultural (like attitudes towards harassment and sexism) which is harder to make into concrete policy proposals.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#363

Post by lagadu »

_skel wrote: post #169

I don't get it. I grew up in Silicon Valley and I work in tech, and so do many other people I know. They run the gamut from far-left socialists to libertarians to own a bunch of guns. They have all kinds of ethnic backgrounds and religious views. Some of my most libertarian/pro-gun friends have not been shy about their political views and it hasn't hurt their tech careers at all. They are far more welcome here than l…

> Work is for working; it's not a debating society, and especially not when the debating is done in bad faith.

Maybe I'm biased because not being in the US most of my knowledge about it is from HN links and discussions along with a few other blog posts here and there but: if that were true, we wouldn't be seeing "but mah inclusion!" posts and discussions on/about American startups every single day around here.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#364

Post by mlloyd »

ericd wrote: post #349
mlloyd wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you vote for a sexist and racist, don't be surprised when you're thought to be a sexist and racist. It's 2018, polite society has moved on from polite silence in the face of such backwards and discriminatory viewpoints. In a lot of circles anyway.

Or maybe those two things aren't everyone's top concerns, especially if they're struggling with the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy, as many people in less prosperous parts of the country seem to be. But even if you're well fed and feel secure in your future economic prospects, not caring very much about racism and sexism doesn't make you racist or sexist. It seems to me that most Republicans just don't care about…

Or people need to understand that when you associate with bigots you'll be labeled as such and whatever granular point you're trying to make gets lost behind that larger point.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#365

Post by freyir »

titzer wrote: post #310

I'm 37 and, God, people treat me like I'm a dinosaur. I've been programming C for 25 years and it's hard to relate to young people who don't know what a machine register is. We can argue about it, I can get downvoted, whatever. I moved out of the Bay Area after 5 years, and to be honest, the divide between where I am and where the ideological center of Silicon Valley has drifted just continues to get wider. It has li…

> I'm 37 and, God, people treat me like I'm a dinosaur. I've been programming C for 25 years

Exit out of vim, fire up Visual Studio Code, and start writing some Javascript. At this point, the 20-somethings will hoist your chair atop their shoulders and carry you around the office chanting your name.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#366

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Tasboo wrote: post #362

*Right leaning tech workers who have never experienced working outside of their bubble. News flash: not every place aligns with your political ideology. Try being a liberal in the Midwest or the South.

Most big cities even in the south and especially in the Midwest tilt liberal. Most college educated people are also liberal, in tech especially so. Unless you are working in Salt Lake City or somewhere special, you are probably surrounded by liberals.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#367

Post by s73v3r_ »

dcow wrote: post #300
mlloyd wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument here is that intolerance wants to have a voice. They feel persecuted because people don't view their intolerant viewpoints as points to be debated but rather ideals to be shunned. This all stems from the sexist Ex-Google guy who is butthurt that he can't write a sexist manifesto at work and have his co-workers debate him on the science, but rather be fired and ostracizedfor expousing discriminatory views…

The argument here is that people like you label anything you don't agree with as "intolerant" and justify social lynching of the ideas based on your likely angry or frustrated emotional assessment. This didn't start with James, although that's one of the more popular incidents. Disagreeing with operational policies that are based on politically charged ideas that we need to correct for the inequalities in outcomes ra…

Are you not doing the exact same thing?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#368

Post by Trundle »

jnbiche wrote: post #236
saget wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They key difference between Nashville and SV is Nashville doesn't claim to be anything but what's it is. SV culture claims to be inclusive and value diversity of thought. However, plenty of people experience exactly the opposite of this and that makes people feel lied to. Eventually the true SV culture will become more understood but until then I can understand people's frustrations

> SV culture claims to be inclusive and value diversity of thought I don't see many people in SV culture claiming to value "diversity of thought". They value diversity of culture, races, sexual identities, etc. But not thought (unfortunately). That said, other posters are 100% correct when they write that rural America is just as intolerant, only in the other direction. And you don't see many people moving to those a…

They might not directly claim to value diversity of thought, however accusations of "bigotry" seem to me to be the most common insult/label applied by progressives to non-progressives, possibly behind only "Nazi".

If someone is using "intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself" as an insult, it only makes sense to assume they are claiming that they are different.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#369

Post by Nokinside »

titzer wrote: post #310

I'm 37 and, God, people treat me like I'm a dinosaur. I've been programming C for 25 years and it's hard to relate to young people who don't know what a machine register is. We can argue about it, I can get downvoted, whatever. I moved out of the Bay Area after 5 years, and to be honest, the divide between where I am and where the ideological center of Silicon Valley has drifted just continues to get wider. It has li…

I don't live in the US but I visit sometimes in Bay Area for business.

The most amazing cultural thing in SF that blew my mind was the existence of startup scene as a cultural phenomenon, subculture and lifestyle.

I'm not completely sure if this is cultural misunderstanding and I am missing something, but it seemed like for every real young entrepreneur there was ten dreamers who were just hanging in the scene for vibes. Dropping out from collage "to startup" but spending their time just hanging out with the group of people with the same subculture. It seemed like pitching a startup was a hobby and maybe phase in life just like sabbatical year.

I find it utterly fascinating. I have no idea if it has negative effects or if it's completely positive phenomenon. Clearly there is lots of young energy in the air.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#370

Post by johnsea »

door3 wrote: post #97
alexashka wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's the strange notion that having an opinion that doesn't hurt anyone should lead to getting fired that's the problem... The irony is not obvious so here it is: You want Damore to be ex-communicated from Google, for having an opinion you disagree with. People of HackerNews have decided to ex-communicate YOU, for having an opinion they disagree with. (Assuming that's what happened on HackerNews, and not that y…

My values aren't "everyone should be able to say everything in every space everywhere without any consequence!", and I don't think even the most radical free speech libertarian would believe that. In either hackernews or at Google, if you started arguing for Holocaust denial, you can bet you wouldn't last long, no matter how hard you defend yourself with "free speech". In all spaces, there are rules of acceptable and…

Read e.g. what Peter Singer has written about this case.
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