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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#311

Post by lifeformed »

heurist wrote: post #180
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems Coming in from New York, San Francisco’s lack of attention to its homeless population is self inflicted. It’s also a problem that nobody in the city seems very much to care about.

I haven't been to San Francisco in 10ish years or NYC in 5 so I can't compare directly, but Austin, Dallas, San Antonio and Houston all have tons of homeless people as well and they seem to get very little attention.

Homelessness isn't just a city-wide problem, but a national one. National policies regarding drugs, housing, economics, play a huge role in how homelessness in a city turns out. There are also homeless populations that move around to different cities. A city can do a lot to change their own situation, but it feels like there's only so much that can be done on a local level when there are huge higher-level pressures.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#312

Post by guelo »

_skel wrote: post #169

I don't get it. I grew up in Silicon Valley and I work in tech, and so do many other people I know. They run the gamut from far-left socialists to libertarians to own a bunch of guns. They have all kinds of ethnic backgrounds and religious views. Some of my most libertarian/pro-gun friends have not been shy about their political views and it hasn't hurt their tech careers at all. They are far more welcome here than l…

Conservative propaganda has learned from the left how powerful victimology, feeling persecuted, is. White resentment is through the roof when I talk politics with a lot of my white friends.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#313

Post by downandout »

nabla9 wrote: post #293
downandout wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, this is a perfect example of the absurd overreaction that Valley liberals have to the idea that someone might have some conservative views. You sound like you voted for Hillary...do you endorse every single thing she has ever done and said? Did that "I'm with her" shirt you probably bought apply to the Clinton Foundation scandal and the use of an unsecured private email server for classified emails? Probably n…

> Clinton Foundation scandal and the use of an unsecured private email server for classified emails? Probably not. This is false equivalence. People like Clinton might appear corrupt for republicans and Dick Cheney might be horrible for democrats, but Trump is in completely different plane. >workplace social scene (if not their job altogether) based on one data point that by itself means next to nothing is wrong. Wha…

You missed my point. I was saying that all candidates have flaws, and people find reasons to vote for them anyway. Whether you voted for Trump or Hillary, you were voting for a flawed candidate. It is only your personal political bias that makes Trump in "completely different plane".

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#314

Post by psyc »

sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

(Disclaimer: I do not intend anything in this comment as a judgment.)

In my view, exactly what happened is that a generation of feminists used the internet (esp. blogs and social media) very effectively. You can look to gaming culture, not as a primary source of this necessarily, but at least as a convenient observable thermometer and timeline. Again, I don't mean to suggest that gaming was the source of all this, but you can watch the dissemination of the ideas, and the predominating cultural shift, by reviewing the timelines of the Penny Arcade Dickwolves controversy (2010-11), and GamerGate (2014). A more direct connection is that the central figures in GamerGate did in fact offer anti-harassment consulting services to SV technology companies.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#315

Post by manfredo »

twblalock wrote: post #251
T2_t2 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the rebuttal your post the heart of the whole current, I'm not even sure how to describe it, "listen" movement: your experience won't be the same as anyone else's? I wonder why that doesn't extend to a white, male, gay, conservative? I also think it is odd that we can see the flaws in everyone everywhere else, but the flaws in our own environ seem so hard to spot. I'm reminded of this in these times: http://www…

Thiel has a larger platform for his views than most people, and his success in Silicon Valley is ironically the reason he gets such a platform. He gets blowback because people are listening, and don't like what he says. Everyone's right to free speech is maximized when he says what he thinks and people who disagree with him say what they think.

This article isn't mainly about Thiel. He's in the rare position in that he knows he can live comfortably for the rest of his life even if his employment opportunities are reduced to zero. This article is more about overall atmosphere and culture experienced by standard tech workers. The full excerpt from Tim Ferris (part of which OP's article quoted) really captures this:

> Now, more and more, I feel like it's a Russian nesting doll of facades -- Washington DC with fewer neck ties, where people openly lie to one another out of fear of losing their jobs or being publicly crucified. It's weird, unsettling, and, frankly, really dangerous. There's way too much power here for politeness to be sustainable. If no one feels they can say "Hey, I know it makes everyone uncomfortable, but I think there's a leak in the fuel rods in this nuclear submarine..." we're headed for big trouble.

I can definitely identify with this sentiment.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#316

Post by newnewpdro »

_skel wrote: post #169

I don't get it. I grew up in Silicon Valley and I work in tech, and so do many other people I know. They run the gamut from far-left socialists to libertarians to own a bunch of guns. They have all kinds of ethnic backgrounds and religious views. Some of my most libertarian/pro-gun friends have not been shy about their political views and it hasn't hurt their tech careers at all. They are far more welcome here than l…

> Work is for working; it's not a debating society, and especially not when the debating is done in bad faith.

If this were actually true of the current milieu of tech employment in the bay area, I'd likely still be a willing and active participant in that workforce.

Substantial energy is wasted discussing ideologies and arranging/having meetings on what are fundamentally social issues we're not realistically fixing in the short-term at the workplace from the bottom-up. The reasons appeared largely focused on satisfying the expectations of a vocal minority of SJW-types bringing this crap into the workplace with HR departments jumping at the opportunity to appear busy and influential.

Edit: Maybe my experiences were unique, though my social circles were complaining of similar things at their respective startups.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#317

Post by rhapsodic »

door3 wrote: post #74
gameswithgo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably just weren't civil enough? I've been shadowbanned but it is because I lost my shit and became rude. I mean it is understandable to lose one's shit here sometimes but also understandable to not allow it.

Maybe, but really the point isn't about me. The point is the dominant opinion on Hackernews is "James Damore was right!" or at least "James Damore made some good points", which, whether you believe it or not, is absolutely a right-wing, conservative opinion, not the kind of "liberal SV PC culture" that is supposedly dominant and oppressive.

>The point is the dominant opinion on Hackernews is "James Damore was right!" or at least "James Damore made some good points",

Uh, that's not my impression. My impression is that the pro-Damore posters say he should not have been fired for the views he expressed. And they're not the dominant opinion; rather it seems neither the pro- or anti-Damore opinions are dominant.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#318

Post by dcow »

manofstick wrote: post #235
walshemj wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but there are no far left parties in the USA to vote for.

As non-american, living outside of america (but having lived there for a year and a half starting January 2000), I concur. I still follow american politics quite a bit (too much for me to remain healthy actually) and I'm constantly bamboozled trying to comprehend what people mean by the "far left". To me it seems like any one is considered "far left" if they believe in: - treating all people, regardless of race, gend…

That's the thing, that's pretty damn central in the US too. The problem is that's not good enough for some people. In the US, legally, we treat everyone equal. However, we're (in theory) a meritocratic society based on survival of the fittest. The modern "far left" ideology is interested in equal outcomes for everyone and defines any statistical dependencies they perceive, and anyone who doesn't support correcting them, as racist, sexist, generally "-ist". So they've moved the goal posts. It's become a battle between equal opportunity and equal outcome and as far as the left is concerned supporting equal opportunity and not equal outcome is deplorable and should be shunned.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#319

Post by Fins »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #10

What is it that Peter Thiel said previously about women voting? What did he do to Gawker?

Gawker was found (not over Thiel's outing, but anyway) guilty by the court. It might be a sad state of affairs that you need to have Thiel's kind of money to take down a gossip rag like Gawker, but... good riddance.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#320

Post by freyir »

heurist wrote: post #130
freyir wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco’s “progressivism” is undermined by how terribly the city operates. Dirty streets, aging infrastructure, crime, homelessness, laissez faire law enforcement, conservative housing policies, and extreme wealth inequality everywhere. If the progressives can’t get their own house in order, good luck selling their vision to the rest of the country.

The entire country has awful city planning, SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems. Conservatives have plenty of issues as well - look at Kansas or Alabama. Don't see those being discussed at a national level, though the politics that drove them into the ground as now steering the federal government.

Cities in Kansas and Alabama may be struggling, but San Francisco has a strong local economy due to the tech industry and it spends a lot more money than most cities. Here's San Francisco's budget expenditures per resident, as compared to other cities:

  SF:      $11,600
  DC:      $11,000
  NYC:      $9,800
  Seattle:  $7,950
  Portland: $7,454
  Austin:   $4,114
  Chicago:  $3,626
  Philly:   $2,810
  Dallas:   $2,367
  LA:       $2,313
  Columbus: $1,035
Lots of money spent and very little to show for it.
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