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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#161

Post by anigbrowl »

sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

This 'takeover' is imaginary. What happened was that people who were sick of libertarianism and techno-utopianism (in some cases because it wasn't the first time they'd seen those ideas wax in significance in the bay area) began to vocally push back and argue that many of the ideas of libertarianism and techno-utopianism are flawed. I suspect you'd also find a pretty close correlation between intensity of left-wing rhetoric and economic insecurity due to rising rents and other factors.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#162

Post by sehugg »

andybak wrote: post #3

Rather worryingly this got flagged and killed. Hopefully we're still at the point where we can sensibly discuss a WSJ article.

The WSJ has gotten very Murdoch-y lately, and continues to contradict their own reporting to push Trump talking points on the editorial page [1]. Nowadays I tend to view them with the same suspicion I'd view a Fox News link.

Also, there's a paywall.

[1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/the-wall-street-jour...

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#163

Post by sho »

fastball wrote: post #139
sho wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I'm just getting old. Well unfortunately nothing can stop that, but things have definitely changed. I remember thinking that too.

Nothing can stop [aging] You just wait, SV will figure it out eventually.

Well bloody hell I hope so! Finally something useful!

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#164

Post by wavegeek »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #147
wpietri wrote: post #78

> they feel people there are resistant to different social values and political ideologies This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies (not to mention backgrounds and interests) here than pretty much any place I've lived. The main hostility I see is to intolerance, but that's hardly surprising given SF's…

Paradox of tolerance, huh? Being intolerant towards the 'intolerant' while still claiming to be tolerant? That's exactly the kind of crap that made Thiel and Altman making such strong arguments towards the culture in the valley.

> the 'intolerant'

i.e. anyone who disagrees with us.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#165

Post by refurb »

friedman23 wrote: post #146
wpietri wrote: post #78

> they feel people there are resistant to different social values and political ideologies This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies (not to mention backgrounds and interests) here than pretty much any place I've lived. The main hostility I see is to intolerance, but that's hardly surprising given SF's…

> This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies Really? Because the only values I've heard expressed have been standard democratic talking points and once in a while far left ideologies.

Precisely! Not what OP's political views are but I would guess if he found the Midwest "stifling" and SF "a breath of fresh air", it's because he's aligned with the politics in SF.

Having also lived in the mid-West and SF, I would agree the mid-West leans more conservative, but in any decent sized city you'll find both view points (election resulted confirm it).

I would say SF is just the opposite of a hardcore conservative town. There is almost no consideration for having a different viewpoint. And if you happen to express one, you're certainly made to feel their is something wrong with you.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#166

Post by icantdrive55 »

freyir wrote: post #82
andrewjl wrote: post #41

I find the recent uptick in progressivism in SV refreshing, and sorely needed. Then again, I've lived my entire life in liberal enclaves and do not personally identify with conservative / "family values" viewpoints.

San Francisco’s “progressivism” is undermined by how terribly the city operates. Dirty streets, aging infrastructure, crime, homelessness, laissez faire law enforcement, conservative housing policies, and extreme wealth inequality everywhere. If the progressives can’t get their own house in order, good luck selling their vision to the rest of the country.

If it's so bad, why do your bosses insist on living/playing in San Francisco?

Why do they selfishly set up shop in this aweful city? Why do they expect their employees to pay exorbitant prices for housing?

Personally, I don't like cities. I always felt San Francisco was one of the better ones though. When I was younger, I felt it was boring though, for a big city.

San Francisco has some of the better unions. Before this current bubble bursts, I would suggest taking some of the exams. There will be a huge swath of tech workers who see first hand what homelessness feels like.

Wealth inequality is everywhere. I don't blame Progressives for that.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#167

Post by refurb »

wavegeek wrote: post #164
dna_polymerase wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradox of tolerance, huh? Being intolerant towards the 'intolerant' while still claiming to be tolerant? That's exactly the kind of crap that made Thiel and Altman making such strong arguments towards the culture in the valley.

> the 'intolerant' i.e. anyone who disagrees with us.

That's the problem. Any dissenting political view is twisted to something intolerant and becomes verboten.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#168

Post by mrgordon »

saget wrote: post #62
Barrin92 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but the ideology of the south is just as homogeneous as SF this is an interesting asymmetry I've noticed too. There are countless of places where salt of the earth Americana is the de facto monoculture. If I'd go there and try to create a liberal-hippie space for myself they'd probably flip me the finger and tell me that's not the local way of life, and somehow everybody seems to agree that this is perfectly fine. Y…

They key difference between Nashville and SV is Nashville doesn't claim to be anything but what's it is. SV culture claims to be inclusive and value diversity of thought. However, plenty of people experience exactly the opposite of this and that makes people feel lied to. Eventually the true SV culture will become more understood but until then I can understand people's frustrations

You can support diversity of thought and still be against billionaires who shut down media outlets and make additional billions off government surveillance and pervasive tracking of individuals (read: minorities)

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#169

Post by _skel »

I don't get it. I grew up in Silicon Valley and I work in tech, and so do many other people I know. They run the gamut from far-left socialists to libertarians to own a bunch of guns. They have all kinds of ethnic backgrounds and religious views.

Some of my most libertarian/pro-gun friends have not been shy about their political views and it hasn't hurt their tech careers at all. They are far more welcome here than liberals are in other parts of the country.

It seems to me, from personal experience, that the people who feel alienated are the ones who bring politics to work in an overbearing contrarian way, seeking to cause offense under the guise of "debate," and then pretend to be shocked when people don't want to put up with their shit. Work is for working; it's not a debating society, and especially not when the debating is done in bad faith.

Peter Thiel has been more politically vocal than most, and he is vocal about things he knows to be unpopular. He can't be surprised that people who disagree with him are also vocal. If he can't take the heat he should stay out of the kitchen.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#170

Post by archagon »

wz1000 wrote: post #99
sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

> The takeover by the proscriptive far-left Americans have a very weird conception of what "far-left" means. Liberal feel good minority appeasement by billion dollar multinational corporations is as far from "far-left" as you can get.

Just people arguing in bad faith, I think.
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