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The Mess at Meetup

gizmodo.com

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Re: The Mess at Meetup

#51

Post by ihsw2 »

soneca wrote: post #24
mft_ wrote: post #22

I'm really conflicted by this article. On the one hand, it's always a shame to read of cases where a company with a great culture which people clearly enjoyed and valued is changed for 'bad' reasons - takeover, or profit, or similar. ...but... > “I really don’t think they would have been able to attract the talent they did without it because the product wasn’t there. They didn’t innovate. Meetup is not attractive exc…

The greatest reason I believe a company should prioritize for cultural excellence is for its causation effect on product excellence. I firmly believe this causation exists and this mutually exclusive scenario you mention doesn't exist.

They're not mutually exclusive but the point is that single-minded ambition towards cultural excellence is a one-way ticket to a rudderless company that has no means of averting disaster.

Such a company can only exist in a fantasy land where growth and expansion are always eschewed for social justice.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#52

Post by DataWorker »

manquer wrote: post #49
quaunaut wrote: post #8

There seems to be an overall attitude in these early comments that have seemed to reach a consensus of, "Those changes sound like what every company should have." Personally, I'm not sure I agree. I think it's entirely possible that those qualities are not what help startups grow, but instead please investors/people not involved in the actual success of the company, while generally decreasing real productivity, incre…

It depends on how you view it, over the long term you are simply left with people who can cope, whether it is good way to run a team/organization is a different question, but it certainly possible to get gains over longer periods of time For example in professional team sports you face high pressure constantly, while individuals fail all the time unable to cope with demanding physical and mental nature of the job, te…

Sports teams generally contract with players. Most employees do not have contracts and golden parachutes and the like. Comparing business to pro sorts isn’t very helpful.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#53

Post by maxxxxx »

TekMol wrote: post #10

The slide deck looks like a persiflage to me. Something I would expect to see in a movie [1]. Are employees in the US really such ducklings that they swallow such insult and paternalism? If I would be a manager at Meetup and would be shown a bunch of bullshit bingo slides about how my current approach is shit and that I am supposed to become better at my job by 'pushing to achieve more' my reaction would be clear. I…

Slide decks like aren't intrinsically bad but from my experience most people who produce them don't actually live by them. A lot of the managers I respect the most don't constantly give motivational speeches but they lead by example. People notice that quickly and act accordingly.

I view people who hand out slide decks like this as weak. Instead of doing the difficult work they just talk about it and leave it to others implementing it.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#54

Post by csa »

mpweiher wrote: post #31
TekMol wrote: post #10

The slide deck looks like a persiflage to me. Something I would expect to see in a movie [1]. Are employees in the US really such ducklings that they swallow such insult and paternalism? If I would be a manager at Meetup and would be shown a bunch of bullshit bingo slides about how my current approach is shit and that I am supposed to become better at my job by 'pushing to achieve more' my reaction would be clear. I…

> Are employees in the US really such ducklings that they swallow such insult and paternalism? AFAICT: yes. But they don't really have a choice. "At will" employment, combined with employer-based health insurance, huge debt loads (student loans, mortgages) and no social security puts employees in a pretty weak position. And that apparently weakens management skills considerably, we had an import from the US whose exc…

While I think most of your points are valid, I want to clear up some issues with the H1B.

From:

http://www.immi-usa.com/h1b-grace-period-sgm-law-group/

> However, as of January 17, 2017, foreign professionals under the H-1B visa will have a 60-day grace period if their employment is terminated.

Note that the time given to leave after the end of the regular employment term is still 10 days, and that is a point of confusion for some people. IMO, 10 days, while tight, is not unreasonable if you know it’s coming far in advance.

Let me make it very clear that I am not trying to make a value judgment about the H1B visa program — rather, I just want to get some facts straight for others who are reading.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#55

Post by quaunaut »

slfnflctd wrote: post #37
quaunaut wrote: post #8

There seems to be an overall attitude in these early comments that have seemed to reach a consensus of, "Those changes sound like what every company should have." Personally, I'm not sure I agree. I think it's entirely possible that those qualities are not what help startups grow, but instead please investors/people not involved in the actual success of the company, while generally decreasing real productivity, incre…

> pressure for long periods of time The key factor to me is that the pressure has to be periodic, or cyclical, so everyone knows there will be a point where it eases off a bit. Rhythms like this are built into pretty much all aspects of biological systems, and human constructs which better reflect them are, I think, more likely to be successful. Someone mentioned a professional sports team vs. 'family' analogy elsewh…

I agree with the idea of periodic pressure- mostly because it leaves you able to respond appropriately when it comes, which it always will.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#56

Post by mpweiher »

csa wrote: post #54
mpweiher wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are employees in the US really such ducklings that they swallow such insult and paternalism? AFAICT: yes. But they don't really have a choice. "At will" employment, combined with employer-based health insurance, huge debt loads (student loans, mortgages) and no social security puts employees in a pretty weak position. And that apparently weakens management skills considerably, we had an import from the US whose exc…

While I think most of your points are valid, I want to clear up some issues with the H1B. From: http://www.immi-usa.com/h1b-grace-period-sgm-law-group/ > However, as of January 17, 2017, foreign professionals under the H-1B visa will have a 60-day grace period if their employment is terminated. Note that the time given to leave after the end of the regular employment term is still 10 days, and that is a point of conf…

Thanks for the update about the change of the rules.

When I was in the US on an H1B, the pro-forma rule was still "you have to be outside the country immediately".

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#57

Post by ghaff »

sokoloff wrote: post #50
chvid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I thought it was the other way around: Meetup valued at 1B and WeWork at 20M. I mean WeWork is just a chain of shared offices. Whereas Meetup is unique and used in any major city all over the world. As you said: It is a gem.

WeWork is growing rapidly and has a product people are willing to pay well over the cost for. Meetup doesn’t seem to have those same tailwinds. If you could buy either company outright for $50MM, I think it’d be a grave mistake to choose meetup. If you could buy 0, 1, or 2 of them for $50MM per, I still think meetup is a hard pass. I’m thinking WeWork overpaid especially if they bought in cash. (Maybe less so if they…

Although I haven't studied Meetup in any detail I've known people who use it for various activities including a group that I used to be involved with. On the one hand, the $100-200 a year they charge to organizers might seem totally trivial. But, for often loosely organized volunteer activities, it's actually a surprisingly high-friction amount. The outdoor activity organization I was involved with actually debated whether to use Meetup over a couple of meetings given that we were listing our trips for free in other ways.

Raising these fees to, say, $500-1000 would probably be a complete non-starter for many groups.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#58

Post by mooreds »

dade_ wrote: post #44

In the last few months the organizers of the meetups I go to have been complaining about changes to meetup, and noted that it is obvious that the changes are being made by people with no clue about what organizers need or how they use the platform. I've been using Meetup for at least a decade, and I've never heard this topic raised before. The conversation continued about alternatives and only Facebook was considered…

I have a friend who wrote a lightweight alternative to meetup.com for tech meetups:

https://meetingstar.io/

If you're looking for another option, it's worth evaluating.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#59

Post by Edmond »

I am going to guess $30 Million is a typo because that would be very odd...I have an easier time imagining meetup acquiring wework than the other way around :)

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#60

Post by frequent »

pyrophane wrote: post #47
dade_ wrote: post #44

In the last few months the organizers of the meetups I go to have been complaining about changes to meetup, and noted that it is obvious that the changes are being made by people with no clue about what organizers need or how they use the platform. I've been using Meetup for at least a decade, and I've never heard this topic raised before. The conversation continued about alternatives and only Facebook was considered…

Out of curiosity, what are the things the organizers are complaining about? I’ve used meetup as an organizer but not in the last couple of years.

organizer here. I'm mostly complaining about the new website:

- still not working on mobile (I'm not using their app), infinite redirects on anything I click

- publishing a meetup is no more intuitive as before making me show up by alone on my meetup at first

- meetup descriptions are plain text now (for concert meetups, I used to post links to buy tickets, embed youtube videos, etc)

- more than 8 participants becomes a clickathon to manage

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