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The Mess at Meetup

gizmodo.com

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Re: The Mess at Meetup

#31

Post by mpweiher »

TekMol wrote: post #10

The slide deck looks like a persiflage to me. Something I would expect to see in a movie [1]. Are employees in the US really such ducklings that they swallow such insult and paternalism? If I would be a manager at Meetup and would be shown a bunch of bullshit bingo slides about how my current approach is shit and that I am supposed to become better at my job by 'pushing to achieve more' my reaction would be clear. I…

> Are employees in the US really such ducklings that they swallow such insult and paternalism?

AFAICT: yes.

But they don't really have a choice. "At will" employment, combined with employer-based health insurance, huge debt loads (student loans, mortgages) and no social security puts employees in a pretty weak position. And that apparently weakens management skills considerably, we had an import from the US whose exclusive management skill apart from blaming the team for his obvious and blatant screwups appeared to be ultimatums of the form "if you don't like it, you can leave".

H1Bs are in an even worse situation, because in theory they have to leave the country at the very moment their employment is terminated (in practice there is a small grace period).

I threw up a little at the "binding arbitration clause" mentioned in the article forced onto employees with their contracts. In Germany, for example, arbitration clauses are simply illegal in employment law. More generally, when involving consumers, they must be separate, signed agreements, so cannot be imposed as fine-print or as parts of a different agreement.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#32

Post by happyguy43 »

TekMol wrote: post #10

The slide deck looks like a persiflage to me. Something I would expect to see in a movie [1]. Are employees in the US really such ducklings that they swallow such insult and paternalism? If I would be a manager at Meetup and would be shown a bunch of bullshit bingo slides about how my current approach is shit and that I am supposed to become better at my job by 'pushing to achieve more' my reaction would be clear. I…

If you would take a slide that isn’t specifically directed at you and is intended to improve an organization so personally and defensively then it’s unlikely you would make a good manager in the first place.

Being offended by impersonal and well-intended feedback and using crass language are likely not the average qualities of managers in sustainable organizations.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#33

Post by ghaff »

pjc50 wrote: post #11
tnolet wrote: post #2

Am I crazy or does the slide deck embedded in the article look totally normal? I would applaud if my senior management presented this.

It's not so much the text as the subtext. Putting "empathy" on the "bad things" list is the dead giveaway. Top-down mandated culture changes are never going to be popular, but this looks like a particularly big one.

The deck as a whole seemed pretty reasonable but that bullet in particular would give me some pause. A culture can be results-oriented without being managed as if people are automatons.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#34

Post by happyguy43 »

ghaff wrote: post #26
Pyxl101 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the slide deck to me looks like a positive and important correction from a company that's been too lax and directionless in its management (this is an inference - I don't know anything about Meetup specifically). It's not contemptuous, it's honest and direct. Most companies would not be so honest with everyone about seeking a change in direction like this. > Past: We debate too much without defined decision…

There are degrees of everything of course. I'm not sure the "It's just business" approach of a typical high-performing football team is necessarily the best model for a lot of companies. The default approach to someone going through a rough patch for family reasons or whatever maybe shouldn't be to boot them out the door. But, yeah, to the degree that their culture was driven by the "Past" descriptions, especially ta…

Nowhere is it implied that people going through rough patches will be judged for poor performance and “booted out the door.” The point is that people should be setting expectations ahead of time and will be held accountable for the expectations they set.

There is ample room in a high-performing workplace for the rare rough patch, just needs to be done in a way that optimally allows the team to minimize the disruption.

The main condition is that rare rough patches should be rare. Obviously people who constantly go through rough patches can not be expected to perform highly and are not appropriate employees in a high performing work environment.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#36

Post by kelvin0 »

occamrazor wrote: post #25

Since when is yoga part of a “bro-centric culture “? All the yoga classes I attended were 90%+ women.

Bros like women. So any activity where there is 90%+ women is clearly part of the bro culture.

It makes perfect sense!

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#37

Post by slfnflctd »

quaunaut wrote: post #8

There seems to be an overall attitude in these early comments that have seemed to reach a consensus of, "Those changes sound like what every company should have." Personally, I'm not sure I agree. I think it's entirely possible that those qualities are not what help startups grow, but instead please investors/people not involved in the actual success of the company, while generally decreasing real productivity, incre…

> pressure for long periods of time

The key factor to me is that the pressure has to be periodic, or cyclical, so everyone knows there will be a point where it eases off a bit. Rhythms like this are built into pretty much all aspects of biological systems, and human constructs which better reflect them are, I think, more likely to be successful.

Someone mentioned a professional sports team vs. 'family' analogy elsewhere here, and while I'm not much of a sports guy the analogy seems like a good one. Pro teams have plenty of down time built into their yearly patterns.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#38

Post by ghaff »

slfnflctd wrote: post #37
quaunaut wrote: post #8

There seems to be an overall attitude in these early comments that have seemed to reach a consensus of, "Those changes sound like what every company should have." Personally, I'm not sure I agree. I think it's entirely possible that those qualities are not what help startups grow, but instead please investors/people not involved in the actual success of the company, while generally decreasing real productivity, incre…

> pressure for long periods of time The key factor to me is that the pressure has to be periodic, or cyclical, so everyone knows there will be a point where it eases off a bit. Rhythms like this are built into pretty much all aspects of biological systems, and human constructs which better reflect them are, I think, more likely to be successful. Someone mentioned a professional sports team vs. 'family' analogy elsewh…

>the analogy seems like a good one

It is but it's probably also extreme in the context of how most companies are/should be managed.

Having a bit of an off-year because you're having some trouble getting on the same page as the new quarterback or whatever. Well, nice to know you, but we're trading you. "It's just business." Hope things work out.

Mind you, some occupations are pretty much like that. Sales jobs in particular are pretty ruthlessly results-oriented. Miss your numbers a couple of times even though it's because of some external factor you may not have control over and you're probably looking at the door.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#39

Post by pixelmonkey »

When you consider how long Meetup has been around (over a decade), how many employees it had at peak (hundreds), and how relatively stagnant the product had been over that period, it feels to me as though they might have prioritized the wrong things from a business standpoint even if they got the culture right.

If the exit price was truly $30 million as reported here, then that was a huge missed opportunity, since Meetup had the brand and the potential to capture much more value in the live community/events space.

I imagine the FB announcements were a wake-up call for the managers that made them reconsider their management approach. The slide deck was probably an attempt to frame positively the reality that despite a feel-good culture, their business was producing lackluster revenue/user growth, and that something needed to change.

Re: The Mess at Meetup

#40

Post by lugg »

ghaff wrote: post #33
pjc50 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much the text as the subtext. Putting "empathy" on the "bad things" list is the dead giveaway. Top-down mandated culture changes are never going to be popular, but this looks like a particularly big one.

The deck as a whole seemed pretty reasonable but that bullet in particular would give me some pause. A culture can be results-oriented without being managed as if people are automatons.

I found it to be an odd mix, some was just simply them finally getting around to fixing problems employees have been complaining about.

But then other times it was blatantly aimed at pushing people out of the company.

Management now aims to:

- Push teams further than they think they can

- Give employees clear goals to meet, by definition unrealistic ones

- Drive everyone harder to meet those goals. "No matter what / do anything."

- Fire them if they don't perform.

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