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Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

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Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#11

Post by jnordwick »

Group think is getting worse. If you have a minority opinion it is more difficult to avoid the bottom of the heap, the standards for a post rise dramatically, and even then there is no guarantee. Sometimes you comments will hit the negatives regardless.

( Edit: heres my latest -2 comment which i really don't understand https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16401221 )

There are some sacred cow on HN too that you cannot go against: meltdown/spectre is overblown, Google tech isn't the greatest, or numerous economic or political opinions.

It also seems like there has been a relaxing of posting subject matter requirements. Naked politics now hit the front page daily when mods used to give at least lip service to deleting it. I think this has done a lot of bring in tribalism - online political discussing seems to bring it out in people and it spreads like a cancer to the rest of the site.

I think if you shoved the political discussion to a side channel, the discussion all around would improve.

Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#12

Post by jnordwick »

dang wrote: post #2

These perceptions are notoriously subject to bias: first, to sample bias, because no one reads all the posts. And second, to whatever the bias is called where we notice what we dislike or annoys us far more than what doesn't, and thus overestimate how much of it there is. We see this most of all in claims of HN's political bias. Because of that, it's best to post links to specific posts to give examples of what you'r…

Why isn't this ever upheld anymore?

> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Ideological or political battle or talking points.

Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#13

Post by gt_ »

jpalomaki wrote: post #8

I've had this feeling, but not sure if it's justified. Could be also the result of more users writing comments. Since the down-voting is the tool we have been given, I have tried to be more active in using it to mark comments that take discussion to wrong direction. Some UI innovations might help here as well. Sometimes when inside thread, you see it's heading to useless direction. Would be nice to be able to collaps…

>Since the down-voting is the tool we have been given, I have tried to be more active in using it to mark comments that take discussion to wrong direction.

I thought downvotes were to be used on posts which don’t move the discussion or contribute to it. For example, non-sequitors or inaccuracies. Judging which direction is “wrong” sounds like opinion abuse to me.

One of my favorite parts of HN is intelligent and diverse discussion, two things I believe must exist hand in hand.

Maybe this is what you meant, but I would not choose to downvote you either way.

Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#14

Post by krapp »

gt_ wrote: post #13
jpalomaki wrote: post #8

I've had this feeling, but not sure if it's justified. Could be also the result of more users writing comments. Since the down-voting is the tool we have been given, I have tried to be more active in using it to mark comments that take discussion to wrong direction. Some UI innovations might help here as well. Sometimes when inside thread, you see it's heading to useless direction. Would be nice to be able to collaps…

>Since the down-voting is the tool we have been given, I have tried to be more active in using it to mark comments that take discussion to wrong direction. I thought downvotes were to be used on posts which don’t move the discussion or contribute to it. For example, non-sequitors or inaccuracies. Judging which direction is “wrong” sounds like opinion abuse to me. One of my favorite parts of HN is intelligent and dive…

>I thought downvotes were to be used on posts which don’t move the discussion or contribute to it. For example, non-sequitors or inaccuracies. Judging which direction is “wrong” sounds like opinion abuse to me.

Downvotes can be used for any reason at all, as can upvotes. AFAIK only flagging has guidelines.

Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#15

Post by krapp »

twouhm wrote: post #6

You might be noticing the eternal September effect, which is sadly starting to affect HN.

Eternal September seems to have "sadly started to affect HN" since the very beginning, or about a few months ago, depending on who you ask, and how old their account is.

Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#16

Post by toomuchtodo »

gt_ wrote: post #13
jpalomaki wrote: post #8

I've had this feeling, but not sure if it's justified. Could be also the result of more users writing comments. Since the down-voting is the tool we have been given, I have tried to be more active in using it to mark comments that take discussion to wrong direction. Some UI innovations might help here as well. Sometimes when inside thread, you see it's heading to useless direction. Would be nice to be able to collaps…

>Since the down-voting is the tool we have been given, I have tried to be more active in using it to mark comments that take discussion to wrong direction. I thought downvotes were to be used on posts which don’t move the discussion or contribute to it. For example, non-sequitors or inaccuracies. Judging which direction is “wrong” sounds like opinion abuse to me. One of my favorite parts of HN is intelligent and dive…

“https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=392347

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171”

Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#17

Post by dang »

jnordwick wrote: post #12
dang wrote: post #2

These perceptions are notoriously subject to bias: first, to sample bias, because no one reads all the posts. And second, to whatever the bias is called where we notice what we dislike or annoys us far more than what doesn't, and thus overestimate how much of it there is. We see this most of all in claims of HN's political bias. Because of that, it's best to post links to specific posts to give examples of what you'r…

Why isn't this ever upheld anymore? > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Ideological or political battle or talking points.

It's upheld all the time. The proportion of that stuff is no greater than it used to be.

As pg once put it, "note those words most and probably". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922380

Re: Meta HN: About the quality of discussion or rather the lack therof

#20

Post by xstartup »

I've stopped posting interesting comments because I get downvoted just because my opinion is different.

Lately, I began to feel HN is full of people who sell their time. They just can't believe that anyone might be willing to work for free. Here is the evidence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16400111 Albeit, it's not enough to draw this kind of conclusion.

See this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16391332

Here I simply asked for people's opinion of the experience on different platforms.

From now I'll just read and rarely post. My work area is ad tech and people here seem not like ads much and will downvote/ignore ad tech questions.

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