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US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

arstechnica.com

11–20 of 104 posts

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#11

It is actually a very good point. Now that I look into it, I think we should also ban all the booster packages for the board games. These packages can contain or may not contain valuable card and you are effectively gambling when you buy one. It can also become very addictive.

I'm not sure how this would work out for Magic the Gathering. Currently card prices are mostly set by the community, because of relative power, rareness, and demand. I'm not sure if WotC can make accurate prices up front.

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#12
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean you're also in favor of ending state sponsored lottories, raffles, etc...?

I am. Unless it's not-for-profit or single use (e.g. lottery revenue going to schools), then it's a regressive tax on people who don't understand probability.

Are there any lotteries in the US that don't directly fund public sectors like education or elderly care? I thought that was how lotteries became legal across the states.

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#13
Why not make it illegal to make randomness a component of games entirely? Ban the possession of dice. Make it illegal to be rewarded with in-game content just for doing well. Games should be like movies. The idea of manipulating people with feelings of achievement is clearly abusive and addictive. No more winning teddy bears for your girl at carnivals. Don't let people unlock things like high scores and new levels, new dialogue, your name on a high-score list. Ban pinball machines, too.

I mean, as long as we're ignoring the fact the loot boxes:

1. Don't require you risk anything of monetary value.

2. Don't reward you with anything that can be sold for cash.*

3. Are randomized, but based on skill.

4. Are entirely digital goods with no real-world value.

5. Are philosophically indistinguishable from other forms of procedural content.

6. The ability to purchase a substitute for in-game content requires access to a credit card.

Also, f * * * EA. I'm not defending EA. But I'm also not for out-of-touch Senators urging us all to think of children when the "children" in question need to have a bank account.

*typically. I know things like "trading cards" on steam can be sold for monetary value. So let's outlaw Pokemon and Baseball Cards, too, just to be safe.

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#15
Not taking a stance for or against this policy. But based on personal experience, I always spend the most money on these damn random draw "loot boxes", especially if I get a crappy draw my first turn (specifically thinking about puzzle and dragons).

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#16
post #13

Why not make it illegal to make randomness a component of games entirely? Ban the possession of dice. Make it illegal to be rewarded with in-game content just for doing well. Games should be like movies. The idea of manipulating people with feelings of achievement is clearly abusive and addictive. No more winning teddy bears for your girl at carnivals. Don't let people unlock things like high scores and new levels, n…

> But I'm also not for out-of-touch Senators urging us all to think of children when the "children" in question need to have a bank account.

It's not just out of touch senators, it's experts in problem gambling who think loot boxes need to be looked at.

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like an argument to remove all randomization from purchases.

I am fully supportive of that.

Good to hear you want to combat companies like CDPR who use techniques to like this to sell to children.

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#18
post #13

Why not make it illegal to make randomness a component of games entirely? Ban the possession of dice. Make it illegal to be rewarded with in-game content just for doing well. Games should be like movies. The idea of manipulating people with feelings of achievement is clearly abusive and addictive. No more winning teddy bears for your girl at carnivals. Don't let people unlock things like high scores and new levels, n…

1. is wrong. You loose significant amount of time and too many people came unbounded. Currently, industry (including social media) has no interest in mitigating the adverse effect of feedback loops on the personal lives of their victims. Regulation has to be made to avoid further harms.

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#19
post #13

Why not make it illegal to make randomness a component of games entirely? Ban the possession of dice. Make it illegal to be rewarded with in-game content just for doing well. Games should be like movies. The idea of manipulating people with feelings of achievement is clearly abusive and addictive. No more winning teddy bears for your girl at carnivals. Don't let people unlock things like high scores and new levels, n…

Points 1, 2, 3 and 4 are incorrect. The value of the item you receive from lootboxes can vary, either from the value of selling your account (against the ToS yes, but it does happen) or from the ability to outright sell/trade the item (see: Dota 2, TF2). Saying that they don't have any real-world value just because they're digital goods is very much dependent on the game.

Points 5-6 just means that we should probably regulate lootboxes like we already regulate gambling. Just because a kid could get some money from their parents to go gambling in a casino doesn't mean it's a good idea. Lootboxes are a well-known concept and regulated in many other parts of the world, including Japan where Gacha is fairly common among their mobile games.

Re: US Senator demands review of loot box policies, citing potential harm

#20
post #11

It is actually a very good point. Now that I look into it, I think we should also ban all the booster packages for the board games. These packages can contain or may not contain valuable card and you are effectively gambling when you buy one. It can also become very addictive.

I'm not sure how this would work out for Magic the Gathering. Currently card prices are mostly set by the community, because of relative power, rareness, and demand. I'm not sure if WotC can make accurate prices up front.

Actually, WotC and the community are quite good at predicting price and market forces on their game. They have ~20,000 cards and 25 years of sales, and numerous quick factors for determining approx. card value.

Concepts like the "curve" (mana vs P/T), and the value of evergreen keywords greatly help. If there was ever a topic for big data.

Naturally, there are surprises (ex: Standard deck that becomes overly popular and drives demand), but sites like mtggoldfish generally predict prices for most cards to within a few percent and then follow all cards and box prices like stock tickers.

Frankly, I've often thought that investing in MtG cards is more stable than gold. Many cards, like "Liliana of the Veil" [cur $88] are worth more by weight - ~$75/ 1.8 gram card = $41.7 / gram, approx gold price. Plus, value cards generally only rise and are supported by a trading base of a few million yearly players.

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