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I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

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Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#191

Post by b0rsuk »

radarsat1 wrote: post #68
ryandrake wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anger is still valid because at the end of the day, the software (that used to work) no longer works due to a choice made by the company that makes the software. To the end user there is no difference between "making a breaking API change on the server" and "pushing a native update that disables the app". This may be the current sucky reality of SaaS, but it could be fixed if the market demanded it.

Ah, yes sorry, I do agree with that. The company is changing things. It does suck. The main difference is just that with SaaS, when they change the server, they change something for everyone, there is no way to really block it. With local apps, you can block updates.* I'm not so much angry about server-based apps changing things, although I see your point, but I am angry about too many server-based apps in the first…

Don't forget about forking. Lack of source code might not matter for the 98% of application users, but the remaining 2% can modify it for everyone. If people don't like the new direction of OpenOffice or MySQL, they make LibreOffice and MariaDB. People should value nerds and their needs more.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#192

Post by crpatino »

therealmarv wrote: post #109
CodeMage wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole car metaphor is a bit unfortunate. Most people who want to drive securely from A to B would be pretty freaked out by a bunch of strangers quietly upgrading their car's brakes in the middle of the night. And they would definitely be pissed off if their car suddenly refused to accelerate beyond 25 mph on a clear, straight, empty stretch of dry road in broad daylight just because the speed limit happens to be…

This argument can be also made positive. Imagine a new update (to be on your example, the new brakes) made the car safer and the saved your life because an accident could be avoided entirely. Otherwise you would be dead. It's not only negative... Btw. when thinking of Tesla cars.. they auto update their software remotely ;)

Your rhetoric is not quite honest. Best case != Average case.

Of course the one-in-a-billion guy whose life got saved by a timely update will be singing your praises. Not so much the hundreds that got in a sublethal crash because of a freshly introduced defect in that same update. But in the big scheme of things, the real issue are the millions that were unable to get on time to whereever they were going, because their fucking car became unresponsive for the fucking 30 minutes that it takes to download your fucking update.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#193

Post by dannyw »

jimmies wrote: post #7

>In 2016, when I got a new phone, the default setting changed and I would just wake up to my device stating, "Tinder has been updated. Deal with it". I turned off auto-updates on my phone. So this happened. Last year or so I traveled to SF and tried to call an Uber home after a long day of walking around. My phone had 5% battery left. I opened the app and there it was... The maps and everything showed up, but then it…

This sucks, but practical pro tip: use m.uber.com if your app won’t work. It’s the lite web app.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#194

Post by Godel_unicode »

marcosdumay wrote: post #158
sheetjs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sucks, but that's the reality of SaaS. I'm a fan of using local apps whenever possible. For instance, Google Docs is just too damn useful not to use sometimes. But I still, majority of the time, will choose to use a local word processor whenever I can get away with it. And when I'm done working on a Google Docs project, I download it in several formats and put it in the drawer. Out of curiosity, would you pay fo…

Does the mobile MS Office keep working if it can't connect to the licensing servers for a month? Because the desktop version doesn't.

The desktop version absolutely does not have that requirement, you just have to buy the right one. Office 2016 can be installed and used offline without ever talking to a Microsoft server. You're referring to a restriction specific to the Office365 version. If you don't want cloud requirements, don't buy the cloudy version.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#195

Post by Faaak »

samfriedman wrote: post #56
gnode wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can certainly imagine the dashboard becoming real estate for ads.

When your car is fully self-driving, I'm sure you will be able to get a discount on the sticker/rental price by agreeing to view some ads on the in-car screens while you ride.

Amazon does it with its kindles. Its ~20 $ cheaper if you opt in for ads when the kindle is idle/off.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#196

Post by pbalau »

derefr wrote: post #125
jimmies wrote: post #7

>In 2016, when I got a new phone, the default setting changed and I would just wake up to my device stating, "Tinder has been updated. Deal with it". I turned off auto-updates on my phone. So this happened. Last year or so I traveled to SF and tried to call an Uber home after a long day of walking around. My phone had 5% battery left. I opened the app and there it was... The maps and everything showed up, but then it…

It’s not the fault of “apps” here. The thing that is breaking compatibility is the server backend. Native frontends (“apps”) have to be coded defensively (e.g. to not even attempt to work unless you update) only because whatever backend service they talk to has no wire protocol that can go a month without what would be, under semver, a major release. You’ll notice that apps that target stable protocols—POP3/IMAP mail…

Nah, is not the devs, is the way the market works. If any of the major apps around will skip a release cycle, the entire media will be plastered with titles like "such and such are dying", investors will start panicking, users might start migrating, bad times for everyone. Basically, we, as a society, are using the wrong metrics to asses the health of an app/company.

/edit: spelling

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#197

Post by marcosdumay »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #194
marcosdumay wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the mobile MS Office keep working if it can't connect to the licensing servers for a month? Because the desktop version doesn't.

The desktop version absolutely does not have that requirement, you just have to buy the right one. Office 2016 can be installed and used offline without ever talking to a Microsoft server. You're referring to a restriction specific to the Office365 version. If you don't want cloud requirements, don't buy the cloudy version.

You know, "buying the right one" Microsoft product can easily be a full time job. That is, if it is even possible. I was under the impression that the only version of Office available was the 365.

But anyway, my workplace brought some version with a clear requirement of getting an eternal license on it. Yet, it breaks all the time because it can't get licenses on the cloud. I am still not sure how MS isn't evading the requirements, but well, it's not my job to check it.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#198

Post by jimmies »

dageshi wrote: post #187
jimmies wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "car-hailing app" with "phone that makes calls", "desktop operating system", "game", "TV that decodes images from airwaves", "car", "firmware to read expiration dates in juicero machine", "running shoes", "watch", "water kettle", "firmware that predicts upcoming heart attacks in pacemaker", "app that displays a map". When do you think it starts becoming ridiculous to demand the rights to not update to the use…

When the primary purpose of the device/application/product requires a connection to the internet in order to fulfill its primary purpose. If it can't do its job at all without an internet connection then denying functionality if you don't update is entirely reasonable in my book. If it can do its primary job without an internet connection then no it's not.

That two can be decoupled. As the Google Maps example illustrated, there are ways/reasons that the app isn't updated, yet it still has an internet connection. The iPhone 4 is stopped at iOS 7, and most apps nowadays require iOS 9.

I think an one-month-old app that refuses to work is a bit too much.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#199

Post by dageshi »

jimmies wrote: post #198
dageshi wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the primary purpose of the device/application/product requires a connection to the internet in order to fulfill its primary purpose. If it can't do its job at all without an internet connection then denying functionality if you don't update is entirely reasonable in my book. If it can do its primary job without an internet connection then no it's not.

That two can be decoupled. As the Google Maps example illustrated, there are ways/reasons that the app isn't updated, yet it still has an internet connection. The iPhone 4 is stopped at iOS 7, and most apps nowadays require iOS 9. I think an one-month-old app that refuses to work is a bit too much.

I'll be honest, I don't. A lot of apps fall into the category of "Glorified website with better performance because it's native", I don't have a problem with a website downloading a new version of itself every time I open it, same with apps frequently updating. It seems like a complete non issue to me.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#200

Post by arbie »

radarsat1 wrote: post #36
jimmies wrote: post #7

>In 2016, when I got a new phone, the default setting changed and I would just wake up to my device stating, "Tinder has been updated. Deal with it". I turned off auto-updates on my phone. So this happened. Last year or so I traveled to SF and tried to call an Uber home after a long day of walking around. My phone had 5% battery left. I opened the app and there it was... The maps and everything showed up, but then it…

I agree with you. But.. > "Tinder has been updated. Deal with it". is an interesting choice of example. The anger at updates only really makes sense for apps that are entirely local to your hardware. As soon as you have an app where part of it runs on a server that you don't control, that logic goes out the window. They can stop your non-updated app from working with no effort, just by making the server API incompati…

Then keep the app in the browser. There is no user-benefit to requiring installation of Uber or Tinder.

Hard for companies to give up that juicy user monitoring, though.

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