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I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

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Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#161

Post by m_fayer »

michaelt wrote: post #70
therealmarv wrote: post #26

Auto Updates without user interaction is the biggest security benefit I can think of for a normal user. Yes you read that right. It's f*cking great that my parents can use an always up to date browser and OS and I don't need to worry if they have updated all their stuff. Update mechanisms like for Java and other stuff which pop-up and require user interaction are a thing most people will not get right. Actually I rea…

Auto Updates without user interaction is the biggest security benefit I can think of for a normal user. Auto updates are a great security benefit, yes. So it's a shame so many companies shit all over auto updates by rolling out poorly tested changes that introduce new problems, and similar behaviour that motivates users to disable auto updates.

Microsoft also shits all over auto-updates by grinding underpowered computers to a halt and making powerful computers sound like hair driers while their auto-update runs ngen, grinds out msi executions, consumes disk space that isn't later cleaned up regardless of how much space is available, and generally acts like an ill-behaved uninvited guest.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#162

Post by CaptSpify »

markcerqueira wrote: post #136
DiNovi wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how I feel about this; you had the power to not auto update; you exercised it; the company had the power to not allow out of date apps use the service; they exercised it... seems right to me. You put yourself in that situation.

This is a recurring theme here where people over-engineer their devices, workflows, and lifestyle. Then they get burned by it and blame everything except that over-engineering.

yeah, how dare people expect their devices to work consistently! /sarcasm

I'd argue that the real problem is that software is eating the world, and companies are becoming less relevant to everyday life, but trying to force ways to stay relevant.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#163

Post by qplex »

Hasknewbie wrote: post #25

> "Thankfully, running a System Restore worked and the next update didn't have these problems, but since then I stopped allowing automatic updates" It is now possible to disable automatic updates in Windows 10? (Asking because forced updates is what made me switch to Linux in the first place.)

Drop all outgoing traffic by default in Windows firewall. Allow only apps that you need.

No more unwanted updates, no more telemetry.

Once in a while you might want to download a fresh .iso from Microsoft that has all the updates integrated. Re-install & repeat.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#164

Post by CaptSpify »

dingaling wrote: post #153
thomastjeffery wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Auto Updates without user interaction Yes, but let's be clear about "without user interaction". That had better include "without user disruption ". Windows 10 is one of the worst abusers here: Updates are forced, and during updates, the computer is suddenly unusable. That is not okay. Debian (derivatives, similar distros, etc.) has done it right for decades . Updates never block the user. Updates are consolidated,…

> Updates never block the user. Perhaps not intentionally but I always have "sudo pkill unattended-upgrades" close to hand when it pegs all my CPU cores whilst I'm trying to get something done.

I think that actually adds more weight to the point. Even upgrades with the best of intentions can go wrong, and users should have the power to stop them when they do.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#165

Post by BuildTheRobots »

jacquesm wrote: post #152
metalliqaz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a problem? I mean you're using a Google OS. At this point they are selling you a service, not a program. I have no idea what is in one version vs another, and I don't really care as long as the service keeps working. Now, I do still care of being in control of my own hardware, but I do so on my server. I don't know of a cell phone that delivers what I want without being sold as a service rather than a standal…

Yes, it is a problem: no updates means NO UPDATES, it does not mean all updates except for those that ignore the setting. The OS is supposed to enforce such things.

To be entirely fair, the option (at least on my Play store) gives options of "Do not auto-update apps. // Auto-update apps at any time. Data charges may apply. // Auto-update apps over Wi-Fi only."

It could easily and even possibly be fairly argued that there's a massive difference between updating 3rd party apps and updating the operating system itself.

The Play services were originally an immutable part of the core OS, but it meant that security updates relied on the manufacturer to push updates, which were useless useless at doing.

I am minded that everyone would laugh at me if I took an un-patched Windows XP system on the internet, yet using ancient Android 4 is still common place. A PC can function offline where as most people can't isolate a phone (from multiple networks) without loosing the core functionality. The PC can be blank; phones usually contain all sorts of personal and private information.

Personally I want OS's to leave me the hell alone, but actually, I can't really blame them for trying to protect their users.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#166

Post by CaptSpify »

suprfnk wrote: post #24
tpaschalis wrote: post #8

I understand that powers have shifted, and the majority of the people prefer "free" email/chat/spreadsheets/storage, when "free" means "welcome to our own special walled corner of the internet, give us your personal data and watch these ads". But why should in 2018 be so hard for one to be able to simply pay once for hardware or software, that puts the user first? Is it impossible for such a company to succeed at sca…

> But why should in 2018 be so hard for one to be able to simply pay once for hardware or software, that puts the user first? Is it impossible for such a company to succeed at scale? Apple seems to follow that plan. For your "email/chat/spreadsheets/storage", they have iCloud mail, iMessage, Numbers and iCloud Drive. You pay once, and get software support quite a lot of years later. They don't seem to be selling or g…

How is a company that gives you a locked-down device that they drastically control, and refuse to provide source for "putting the user first" ?

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#167

Post by m_fayer »

The GDPR is going in the right direction by creating a "bill of rights" for your data, so ownership is firmly delineated and all 3rd party use of data revolves around clear revokable granular consent.

What we need now is a "bill of rights" defining and preserving the notion of ownership for digital devices. Part of that should be that the device should only do what it's explicitly asked to do. Updates should be opt-in in nearly all cases, and mandatory updates should meet stringent requirements similar to vaccines. That is, only to combat major threats that apply to users as a group.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#168

Post by cesarb »

Silhouette wrote: post #145
marssaxman wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when thinking of Tesla cars.. they auto update their software remotely That is one reason I will never buy one.

You are not alone. I drive a car that is relatively old now, but well maintained and in good working order. I have no interest in buying anything in the current generation of half-baked "connected cars", where critical systems are now connected to systems that are remotely accessible, but assumptions from another time underlie the architecture and security is bolted on as an afterthought if you're lucky. It's not as…

> where critical systems are now connected to systems that are remotely accessible

This reminds me of the first Jurassic Park movie, where IIRC everything was controlled by a single mainframe, from the PABX to the electric fences of the dinosaur pens, and a disgruntled programmer pretending to fix the former disabled the later. We seem to be steadily moving towards that kind of world.

Re: I've never felt less in control of my own hardware

#170

Post by a3n »

jimmies wrote: post #7

>In 2016, when I got a new phone, the default setting changed and I would just wake up to my device stating, "Tinder has been updated. Deal with it". I turned off auto-updates on my phone. So this happened. Last year or so I traveled to SF and tried to call an Uber home after a long day of walking around. My phone had 5% battery left. I opened the app and there it was... The maps and everything showed up, but then it…

Why couldn't you just call a cab?
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