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Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

citylab.com

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Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#61

Post by CarDrone2 »

andrewguenther wrote: post #35
beisner wrote: post #9

To add to the points raised in the article, Seattle’s public transit system and transit policy are just plain good . Buses are clean/new, frequent, and on-time; trains (while they don’t yet extend as far as they need to) are reliable and have good coverage along frequented routes; HOV lanes are (finally!!!) present along the entirety of common longer commutes (especially across the lake). The bus system is especially…

> Seattle’s public transit system and transit policy are just plain good. Buses are clean/new, frequent, and on-time; trains (while they don’t yet extend as far as they need to) are reliable and have good coverage along frequented routes... Did we live in the same city? This is the exact opposite of my experience with Seattle transit.

We probably don't live in the same place. You see, I live in reality, while you live in a fantasy world where your ability to drive your car for cheap matters.

Roads need to be _EXPENSIVE_ to use, Cars need to be expensive to own Transit needs to be _UBIQUITOUS_ and _CHEAP/FREE_ to use

_ANY_ other combination is insanity. It has been proven time and time again that any other combination leads to insane amounts of congestion.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#62

Post by chroem- »

davidw wrote: post #53
chroem- wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are shooting ourselves in the feet by intentionally diminishing road traffic capacity before the alternative is ready. You are not serving the underprivileged by making it too expensive to drive, since middle and lower income people can only afford to live in the outlying areas in the first place.

> middle and lower income people can only afford to live in the outlying areas in the first place. That is a solvable problem: get rid of the zoning that keeps them out.

That's wonderful, but now you're trying to solve mass transit and affordable housing at the same time. The fact of the matter is that a war on driving is a war on the working class. You can get a used car for just above $1000, but that's how much more you would be paying per month to live within transit distance of your workplace.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#63

Post by CheapCarsAmaz »

davidw wrote: post #53
chroem- wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are shooting ourselves in the feet by intentionally diminishing road traffic capacity before the alternative is ready. You are not serving the underprivileged by making it too expensive to drive, since middle and lower income people can only afford to live in the outlying areas in the first place.

> middle and lower income people can only afford to live in the outlying areas in the first place. That is a solvable problem: get rid of the zoning that keeps them out.

I can't reply to the $1000 used car comment, but holy shit are people short sighted.

Yep, $1000 for a car. That's it! That's all it takes. That car will now last until infinity without any extra costs, maintenance, headaches, etc.

Jesus people are stupid.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#64

Post by jschwartzi »

briffle wrote: post #59
chroem- wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are shooting ourselves in the feet by intentionally diminishing road traffic capacity before the alternative is ready. You are not serving the underprivileged by making it too expensive to drive, since middle and lower income people can only afford to live in the outlying areas in the first place.

How long would it take to widen the freeways to account for the same number of commuters that the light rail is predicted to carry? I'm guessing rebuilding all those roads, overpasses, underpasses, purchasing rights of way, etc, take some serious time and money..

And that's all right of way that could otherwise be used for rail. So it's not just a matter of building both, but of choosing one mode or the other.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#65

Post by chroem- »

briffle wrote: post #59
chroem- wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are shooting ourselves in the feet by intentionally diminishing road traffic capacity before the alternative is ready. You are not serving the underprivileged by making it too expensive to drive, since middle and lower income people can only afford to live in the outlying areas in the first place.

How long would it take to widen the freeways to account for the same number of commuters that the light rail is predicted to carry? I'm guessing rebuilding all those roads, overpasses, underpasses, purchasing rights of way, etc, take some serious time and money..

Even maintaining current capacity would be an improvement over what's happening right now. They are intentionally trying to reduce the number of drivers before the transit system is ready to handle them.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#66

Post by stephengillie »

eksu wrote: post #55
throwawaysea wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, lots of actions. I'll name just a few but this is FAR from exhaustive: - They have eliminated car lanes in favor of bike lanes that are typically not highly utilized - even in neighborhoods far from the downtown core, street parking is being eliminated for bike lanes, and is making even simple tasks hard and hurting quality of life (e.g. taking the kids to the dentist but not being able to park anywhere nearby).…

I don't know why this comment died, it's accurate. If you disagree with the parent comment, give your viewpoint on why this isn't the case or these changes were good.

Account is probably dead-banned. Other comments are relevant but dead as well.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#67

Post by SirPulse »

arcticfox wrote: post #27
beisner wrote: post #9

To add to the points raised in the article, Seattle’s public transit system and transit policy are just plain good . Buses are clean/new, frequent, and on-time; trains (while they don’t yet extend as far as they need to) are reliable and have good coverage along frequented routes; HOV lanes are (finally!!!) present along the entirety of common longer commutes (especially across the lake). The bus system is especially…

Maybe inside of Seattle it's "good", but when I lived near Microsoft I would have to allocate 3hrs+ for a round-trip into the city by public transit.

During regular working hours? No way! 545 is awesome and takes ~30 minutes to Seattle. So an hour is more realistic. Even carpool is not bad with much better HOV coverage.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#68

Post by adventured »

news_to_me wrote: post #32

A lot of the anti-transit comments here are simply saying "yeah but it's hard to get to X place by transit" (particularly Microsoft). This may be true now, but from my perspective only underscores the need for even better coverage — for example, ST3 reaching Redmond will help enormously for people getting between Seattle and Microsoft. In general, focusing on transit at the expense of drivers is simply the smart thin…

> In general, focusing on transit at the expense of drivers is simply the smart thing to do

Plus, as Seattle continues to expand, it's only going to become more expensive and difficult (zoning, nimby etc) to build rail mass transit. Now is the time to do it and do it aggressively. You put it into place now because you won't be able to later.

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#69

Post by jschwartzi »

drak0n1c wrote: post #45
news_to_me wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but I take measurements like these as a need to further improve transit. For example, the light rail reaching Redmond should help that particular route a lot. In general, it doesn't make sense to invest in making it easier for cars as the population grows — it's not as sustainable as improving transit, since public transit is a far more efficient way to transport people.

That estimation may change in the coming decades. Self driving cars would allow for pooling and far greater car throughput on existing roads (no human latency/error, synchronized top speeds)

Even if self-driving cars were perfect and every manufacturer came out with one tomorrow, it would still be 20 or 30 years before the existing cars on the road were all replaced. To say nothing of the decades of R&D that will be required starting now in order to get us to that point.

I think it's naive to suggest this as an alternative when we could have working mass transit systems using proven equipment within a decade. Why would we wait for what might come when we could have something better today?

Re: Seattle Is Winning the War on the Car Commute

#70

Post by jschwartzi »

eksu wrote: post #26
news_to_me wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, this is just evidence to expand public transit even more. There's only so much road space, and as the population grows we need to more efficiently utilize it – busses and rail are some of the most efficient ways. While we always need to support some car use cases, public transit is really the long-term solution to traffic.

I would love to have good public transit, but being someone who bused from 2008 until 2015 it will never happen. Busses in the city are plagued by our homeless. A lot of the busses simply don't feel safe, especially if you're a female traveling solo. The exception to the rule seems to be the 'commuter' busses, double deckers that go to park and rides straight downtown, but park and rides are full by 6:30 with not eno…

It sure as shit doesn't fail me when I'm commuting home from downtown at 1:00 in the morning after a concert.
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