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Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

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Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#311

Post by thirdsun »

bondolo wrote: post #123

I have never used Windows 10 nor made significant use of any Windows version since Windows XP. Nonetheless my parents asked me to look at some issues they were having with their laptops. The trend of increasing clutter that has plagued Windows since XP seems to have accelerated. The user experience appears to have been designed by a hoarder. I spent a significant amount of time asking "Do you know what this is? Do yo…

To be fair, I'm not sure if Windows alone is to blame in this case.

If you're not familiar with Windows and try to clean a PC that isn't yours, it's probably hard to tell what was user installed, what was pre-installed by the manufacturers (they love to include bloatware and unnecessary "tools") and what actually came with Windows.

It's very easy for unaware users to install all sorts of crap and they never know where it came from or what it does - that's basically every PC of a non-tech-savvy user ever.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#312

Post by GordonS »

ChoGGi wrote: post #247
badsectoracula wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. Actually, it is worse: you used to be able to replace the default desktop and install your own from the first versions of Windows up until recently. Now you can't and with Windows 8 Microsoft removed a ton of functionality when it comes to customization (e.g. you can…

>> Like seriously buddy, the GUI desktop is now ~40 years old and windows /still/ can't support uninstalling the default desktop and installing your own. So these shell replacements I've been using for over a decade don't exist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_shells_for... The only time explorer.exe is running on my computer is when I need some special control panel setting.

Most of them seem to be discontinued - can I ask which one you use, and what benefits it has over the standard Windows 10 shell?

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#313

Post by emodendroket »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #304
emodendroket wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, the last time I tried it it came with a bunch of disclaimers to never mount an NTFS filesystem as read/write on a hard drive whose contents you weren't OK with losing, but it's good to hear things have gotten better.

Everything that deals with filesystems or partitions has that kind of disclaimer. There fact is that you should always backup data you care about. It's the same as saying they aren't responsible for your computer suddenly catching fire. Is that likely to happen? No.

Not that kind of disclaimer but a serious one that corruption was very likely

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#314

Post by emodendroket »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #303
emodendroket wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, but is it more annoying than using Windows all the time? In a word: yes. I have at different points used Windows, Linux, and OS X as primary desktop operating systems, so I am not operating from a sense of total ignorance of what other systems are like. My experience with Linux was that I needed to do far more configuration because lots of hardware wouldn't work right out of the box and needed a lot of t…

When is the last time you used a major Linux distro? From my experience, installing and using Linux has been the most straightforward, especially compared to windows. And that's the point: we all have different experiences, so I think it's a bad idea to tell someone they are going to have your bad experiences of they try something new, because better software ends up getting a bad rap.

You don't seem to have any qualms about sharing negative Windows experiences. Is the claim here that I should never share my opinion of software I have used?

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#315

Post by emodendroket »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #305
emodendroket wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In reality, GNU/Linux is so much easier to use than Windows; most people have simply learned the latter first. That just isn't true. But don't take it from me; here's esr: http://web.archive.org/web/20180109063613/www.catb.org/esr/w...

Just because one piece of software was unnecessarily difficult for someone does not mean the entire ecosystem is broken. The problem we have is that a similar problem in Windows is instantly forgiven, because there is nothing you can do about it; whereas in Linux people expect a higher standard (which is often met) because that arbitrary limitation no longer exists. Sure windows has gotten a lot better since XP, but…

The article says that the point isn't about CUPS in particular, but generally poor UX in Linux GUIs, and how Windows and Mac in this regard wipe the floor with Linux software in this respect, and I think it's completely right. There just isn't really a culture of providing a consistent UI experience or making the UI a first-class citizen in Linux-land.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#316

Post by tim333 »

djaychela wrote: post #127
Animats wrote: post #50

And that's why my one remaining Windows machine runs Windows 7.

Me too. I have a perfectly functional music studio computer that's dual-booting Win7 on both partitions - one for more general use and making YouTube videos, and the other for making music. I've had quite a few 'why aren't you running Win10' comments... I have nothing to gain and a lot to lose - time if nothing else. I hate the Win10 UI, bloatware and changing things without your consent, and Win7 works perfectly for…

Yeah I 'upgraded' to 10 then 'downgraded' back to 7. I've yet to regret going back.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#317

Post by Maert »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #176
emodendroket wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wrong, most emulators are open source, support Linux, and work great. As I said to the other guy, for a number of systems there's no emulator except the one on Windows. > "way worse" is a bit harsh for describing LibreOffice. It works quite well in my experience. Yeah, because your experience doesn't involve using the advanced features that have no analogue and you aren't overly concerned that the formatting will l…

>As I said to the other guy, for a number of systems there's no emulator except the one on Windows. The only one that comes to mind is that one Wii U emulator. Xenia doesn't support Linux but it's open source and the lack of support more a reflection of its relative immaturity than not being possible (I'm certain a Linux port will come eventually, I was even working on it myself for a while). >Yeah, because your expe…

> If the formatting of a docx looks wrong in LibreOffice that's not really a big deal if you can still read the content, which is usually the case.

You sound like someone who never collaborated on an Office file with someone from another company.

If a company wants to be taken seriously, and some of their work involves exchanging and collaborating on presentations, text documents or tabular files, you cannot not use MS Office.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#318

Post by Maert »

beached_whale wrote: post #76

I use Windows when I have to now. I used to use Visual Studio as it is really good. But since Windows 8 and more so Windows 10 they have started taking from me. I paid for Windows 10 Pro, but I am subjected to the task of repeatedly removing software, or adverts for software, that I explicitly said remove. This is repeated when major updates go through. Plus the extra data and processing to get a system that isn't us…

What am I missing? I have Windows 10 Pro on 2 computers I use daily, I have no crap games auto installing, I have no restarts other than when I select to, my computer never slows down "because windows things".

What are you guys experiencing that I am not?

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#319

Post by emodendroket »

Maert wrote: post #317
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As I said to the other guy, for a number of systems there's no emulator except the one on Windows. The only one that comes to mind is that one Wii U emulator. Xenia doesn't support Linux but it's open source and the lack of support more a reflection of its relative immaturity than not being possible (I'm certain a Linux port will come eventually, I was even working on it myself for a while). >Yeah, because your expe…

> If the formatting of a docx looks wrong in LibreOffice that's not really a big deal if you can still read the content, which is usually the case. You sound like someone who never collaborated on an Office file with someone from another company. If a company wants to be taken seriously, and some of their work involves exchanging and collaborating on presentations, text documents or tabular files, you cannot not use…

Even Mac Office used to be really bad here, although I think the newest versions are significantly closer to the real thing.

I feel like this is kind of an extreme example of something I see a lot on HN: hackers who literally cannot imagine ways of using a computer that are outside of their experience.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#320

Post by slumberlust »

edsouza wrote: post #77
aphextron wrote: post #69

To anyone wondering, all of that crap can be removed with PowerShell: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/easily-remove-bloatware-window...

I have done that before, but on the first anniversary update, they all come back. I will try it again, and wait for the next anniversary update to see if they come back again.

Spoiler: They will come back.
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