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As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

arstechnica.com

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Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#31

Post by rsync »

gojomo wrote: post #12
truculation wrote: post #5

If the immune system has finite resources, would reducing the lifetime drain on those resources by infectious diseases delay the age at which we can expect get cancer? For example, curing the common cold and/or developing a universal flu vaccine.

Via mechanisms similar to either the hygiene hypothesis or hormesis , it's possible those might backfire. This is highly speculative, but: * the hygiene hypothesis suggests that allergies and auto-immune disorders can arise from having insufficient immune-system challenges, especially when young. Lacking the calibration from an 'expected' or 'optimal' level of dirt/allergens/infectious-diseases, the immune system sta…

"Removing mild, survivable challenges from the environment could thus leave the immune system less 'tuned' for the full spectrum of challenges it faces"

Exactly. You want to protect people from, say, Rubella ... but I think we should proceed with caution with things like the cold and the flu ...

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#32

Post by kazinator »

The link between cancer and the immune system (the latter's role in defending against the former) is not all that clear.

Here is a cancer.com (American Cancer Society) article on the relationship between AIDS and cancer.

Source: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/infectious-agent...

Firstly, they say that "In fact, some types of cancer occur so often in people with AIDS that they are considered AIDS-defining conditions".

But that's only certain specific cancers. Then there are some other cancers that occur often with AIDS but are not "AIDS-defining".

And then there is the kicker: "Of course, as people with HIV are now living longer, they are also developing other cancers that are not clearly linked to HIV but are more common in older people, such as breast, colorectal, and prostate cancer.".

So, these cancers go up in AIDS survivors due to age, even though those people have immune systems that were already shot years before.

So much for a tidy hypothesis about aging -> lower immune system -> cancer, I suppose.

As for why those afflicted with AIDS get certain cancers, one explanation (also given in above page) is that some cancers are caused by viral infections. Weakened defense against viral infections, increased cancer of that type.

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#33

Post by golem14 »

rsync wrote: post #30
truculation wrote: post #5

If the immune system has finite resources, would reducing the lifetime drain on those resources by infectious diseases delay the age at which we can expect get cancer? For example, curing the common cold and/or developing a universal flu vaccine.

"If the immune system has finite resources, would reducing the lifetime drain on those resources by infectious diseases delay the age at which we can expect get cancer?" I would wager the opposite is true. Body systems maintain themselves and their fitness and function through use . The obvious examples are bone and muscle tissue that become stronger through stress but are you aware that breast cancer incidence is st…

Obligatory Futurama reference (sorry for the pre-roll ad)

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/w4gk7d/futurama-cold-outbreak

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#34

Post by mysterypie »

ransom1538 wrote: post #9

I always think of these two monkeys[i] when I consider slowing down my age. [i] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

It's an interesting well-written article, but you realize that their main point was that it contradicts the earlier calorie-restriction study: "The Nature authors found no increase in lifespan; the calorically restricted animals lived no longer, statistically, than their well-fed cousins."

They try to reconcile the studies: maybe it's the natural-ingredient foods vs the refined foods, maybe it's the generous diet vs the more-than-generous free-feeding, or conceding that the monkey's don't live longer, but they live healthier.

IMO, the best paragraph from the article was this: "Many of us simply roll our eyes and click away when yet another medical study contradicts the last study—so what else is new? Coffee’s bad for you, until it’s good for you—and so is red wine. Antioxidants are essential, or they’re useless. And so on."

Other than some very basic common sense things -- like don't eat rat poison -- I never find that these kinds of studies lead to correct and actionable information about how to slow down aging or how to lead your life. And it's extremely frustrating to even try.

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#35

Post by bluetwo »

glibgil wrote: post #21
ShabbosGoy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to metabolism. As you age, your metabolism slows. Coenzymes like NAD+[0] are depleted. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/nrneph.2017.5

Right, so just back up a step and stop the metabolism from slowing

Medicinal Cocaine?

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#37

Post by evo_9 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #9

I always think of these two monkeys[i] when I consider slowing down my age. [i] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

Yeah I have gone and done it, I have decreased my calories by roughly 30% in the past year or so and dropped around 30 pounds in the process, plus an aggressive vitamin and supplement routine, along with taking metformin. I also workout 7 days a week including playing hockey 2, sometimes 3 days (and also working out before or after), the group I skate with is highly skilled and the intensity is pretty up there, I've been skating with them for about 15 years or so.

I just turned 50 but am regularly assumed to be 36, the age everyone always guess... including by my gf's parents who are just a few years older than me. I am a rather crazy outlier though, I actually enjoy working out and do a hundred+ pull-ups a week, and even on my light workout days tend to do at least 20 or so just to loosen up a bit.

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#38

Post by pmiller2 »

evo_9 wrote: post #37
ransom1538 wrote: post #9

I always think of these two monkeys[i] when I consider slowing down my age. [i] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

Yeah I have gone and done it, I have decreased my calories by roughly 30% in the past year or so and dropped around 30 pounds in the process, plus an aggressive vitamin and supplement routine, along with taking metformin. I also workout 7 days a week including playing hockey 2, sometimes 3 days (and also working out before or after), the group I skate with is highly skilled and the intensity is pretty up there, I've…

I'm assuming you're not diabetic, so how did you persuade a doctor to prescribe metformin?

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#39

Post by d1zzy »

evo_9 wrote: post #37
ransom1538 wrote: post #9

I always think of these two monkeys[i] when I consider slowing down my age. [i] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

Yeah I have gone and done it, I have decreased my calories by roughly 30% in the past year or so and dropped around 30 pounds in the process, plus an aggressive vitamin and supplement routine, along with taking metformin. I also workout 7 days a week including playing hockey 2, sometimes 3 days (and also working out before or after), the group I skate with is highly skilled and the intensity is pretty up there, I've…

(this may be an unpopular opinion but...)

The problem with having a healthy lifestyle is that our lives aren't statistics. Big number theory does not apply, we only have one draw, one life and if it happens that we are one of those unlucky ones to get lung cancer while never having smoked or generally lead a healthy life then we still die within a year and there's nothing we can do about it.

Any drastic lifestyle change has costs: serious time, commitment, money and we sacrifice opportunities, things that we could be doing/enjoying instead. So my advice is: for anyone deciding to drastically change their lifestyle to a "healthier" one, do so for all the _other_ reasons (feeling fit and good, looking younger, improved relationships, having more energy, etc) but not expecting for that to increase your life span. Because then you may be up for a one nasty disappointment when cancer strikes and you are left wondering why did you do all that, why did you sacrifice so much. You better have a good answer when that happens is what I'm saying. :) (and that is true no matter what lifestyle you lead)

Re: As we age, cancer rates go up as immune system winds down

#40

Post by sushid »

evo_9 wrote: post #37
ransom1538 wrote: post #9

I always think of these two monkeys[i] when I consider slowing down my age. [i] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

Yeah I have gone and done it, I have decreased my calories by roughly 30% in the past year or so and dropped around 30 pounds in the process, plus an aggressive vitamin and supplement routine, along with taking metformin. I also workout 7 days a week including playing hockey 2, sometimes 3 days (and also working out before or after), the group I skate with is highly skilled and the intensity is pretty up there, I've…

Are you taking metformin because you're prediabetic or because you think it can extend your life expectancy (or both)?

Don't you have problems keeping warm, sleeping, and maintaining muscle mass at that level of calorie deficit?

Also wondering what your supplementations are. I take Vit D, Zinc, pre/probiotics but having an aggressive vitamin routine isn't considered ideal these days.

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