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MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

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Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#81

Post by wenc »

jasondc wrote: post #53
majidazimi wrote: post #49

Call me when they added Triggers, Stored Procedures, Common Table Expressions, Window Functions,...

Triggers?? Where you add some application logic to the database, 10 years go by, and no one has any idea how the triggers work? Or even how to test them? I've never seen triggers used successfully in any production application (maybe they work at first, but give them time, and a few code changes).

Triggers are pretty much like stored procedures. They have their place.

One of the major use cases of serverless functions is as triggers.

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#82

Post by woah »

drmirror wrote: post #12
overcast wrote: post #2

Next up will be SQL compliance, and we'll be back to a relational database. I'm curious as to what the impact to speed will be, and what the use cases for these types of databases is now that the major SQL players support JSON.

I beg to differ. (Disclosure: I work for MongoDB.) Using JSON as your data model, rather than relational tables, lets you build different applications that don't need multi-document transactions as often, because the data is already together in a single document. But when you do need multi-document transactions (a small percentage of applications do, and only few use cases inside those applications), they are now ava…

As a developer: What? Almost everything is relational. I do appreciate Mongo's query language and ease of use (it was the first DB I learned), but your statement is ludicrous. Think about a basic blog system. You'll have relations between authors, posts, categories, and comments.

In my experience, Mongo is most often used with ORMs that emulate joins, like Mongoose. And the possibility of data inconsistency due to lack of transactions is ignored, or patched over with cleanup scripts after the fact.

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#83

Post by gremlinsinc »

zappo2938 wrote: post #40
_wc0m wrote: post #6

MongoDB has successfully played the 'hype first, features later' strategy. Now it is well on the way to being a decent swiss-army-knife database. The RethinkDB retrospective[0] contains a lot of insight into how MongoDB has succeeded despite being vastly inferior on a technical level back when it first launched. I have to admit them a certain respect for executing their strategy so successfully. Choice quote: Every t…

With all its problems, I built a MEAN (MongoDB, Express, Angular, Node) app from zero knowledge to production 2 years ago far faster than this React, Apollo, GraphQL, and Postgres app I'm building from zero knowledge.

Speed isn't always a great thing... If it takes you 2x faster to build but 10x extra support/maintenance after the fact and eventually you need to migrate to postgres anyway because of acid features and stability.. then the time/money loss > benefits.

Build something the right way first, even if it does take longer though I use rbdms(mysql or postgres) all the time with an ORM and the ORM does most of the heavy lifting. (Laravel/Eloquent in my case).. so I still develop pretty rapidly. I'm sure if you use pg+react on multiple projects eventually the speed to launch will increase...

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#85

Post by nemo44x »

truth_seeker wrote: post #79

Wow. In v3.6 they started supporting complex joins and in next major release ACID is also coming. It would make it most flexible database ever. I would love to see RocksDB as storage engine instead of WiredTiger in their future releases.

You might be interested in this:

http://mongorocks.org/

MongoDB has plug-able storage engines.

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#86

Post by btilly »

_wc0m wrote: post #6

MongoDB has successfully played the 'hype first, features later' strategy. Now it is well on the way to being a decent swiss-army-knife database. The RethinkDB retrospective[0] contains a lot of insight into how MongoDB has succeeded despite being vastly inferior on a technical level back when it first launched. I have to admit them a certain respect for executing their strategy so successfully. Choice quote: Every t…

MongoDB has successfully played the 'hype first, features later' strategy. Now it is well on the way to being a decent swiss-army-knife database.

I was going to say that I won't believe that it is on its way to being a decent database until after an article appears on https://aphyr.com/tags/jepsen saying that MongoDB actually delivers on what it claims.

So I looked for the most recent analysis of MongoDB and found https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-3-4-0-rc3. I still want to see verification of the latest release, and hear battle stories from it in production. But I'm provisionally optimistic that a lot of the glaring "it is a pile of shit that doesn't work when the chips are down" issues are now addressed.

That said, I bet that it will be many years before most people who got burned by MongoDB ever rethink their attitudes about it. Once burned, twice shy. And it really was an overhyped steaming pile of shit for a very long time.

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#87

Post by chipotle_coyote »

williamstein wrote: post #76
luckydata wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're playing the long game and not looking to make a profit that's fine, but PostgreSQL as a company would have been doomed a long time ago. You have to keep in mind the timelines of the business and what they need to do to keep the lights on. MongoDB has identified a real pain point: many developers don't like to use SQL to interface with a transactional database. I'm not going into the merits of SQL vs. NoSQL,…

PostgreSQL as a company: https://www.citusdata.com

There are several companies that are leveraging PostgreSQL for their own businesses, but that doesn't seem to me to be a rebuttal of the OP's assertion that PostgreSQL couldn't survive as a company itself. Citus Data is not "PostgreSQL as a company," it is "a company that exists because PostgreSQL already existed."

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#88

Post by sorokod »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #28
_wc0m wrote: post #6

MongoDB has successfully played the 'hype first, features later' strategy. Now it is well on the way to being a decent swiss-army-knife database. The RethinkDB retrospective[0] contains a lot of insight into how MongoDB has succeeded despite being vastly inferior on a technical level back when it first launched. I have to admit them a certain respect for executing their strategy so successfully. Choice quote: Every t…

There is a trend I noticed where I work. Most people that “get it right” the first time around do not get any recognition whatsoever. It is the people that screw up, release with big flaws that the customer then pressures the company about, that are heralded as heroes and bacon savers when the fix those flaws. After 3 years and as many releases.

The "squeaky wheel gets the grease" syndrome.

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#89

Post by overcast »

_wc0m wrote: post #6

MongoDB has successfully played the 'hype first, features later' strategy. Now it is well on the way to being a decent swiss-army-knife database. The RethinkDB retrospective[0] contains a lot of insight into how MongoDB has succeeded despite being vastly inferior on a technical level back when it first launched. I have to admit them a certain respect for executing their strategy so successfully. Choice quote: Every t…

I loved working with RethinkDB, and the changefeed stuff was awesome. It gave me relational documents, which is all I wanted for most projects. Bummed that project has been basically slowed to nothing.

Re: MongoDB gets support for multi-document ACID transactions

#90

Post by gshulegaard »

lkrubner wrote: post #74

Most software developers have a negative impression of MongoDB, based on the many flaws that it had back in 2010. Among the people who did the best job of documenting those flaws, was Kyle Kingsbury, in his Jespen series: https://aphyr.com/posts/284-jepsen-mongodb But it is important to realize that the team at MongoDB has actually been working with Kingsbury, for several years now, and they have slowly and patiently…

Well...to the best of my knowledge the Mongo DB BI connector in 2018 is still Postgres:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/mongodb-32-now-powered-postgr...

Has this changed?

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