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Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

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Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#31

Post by jsgo »

Retric wrote: post #20
haikuginger wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like they considered substantial congestion for either 4G LTE or 5G, which should mean that while the specific bandwidth numbers may not hold up, the speed ratio should be comparable in production. You can see that they evaluate LTE at 50Mbps, which is around what Verizon phones were getting when they first started going to market but before congestion and backhaul limitations were hit due to the numb…

I think the biggest difference is going to be raising monthly download caps. 4gig to ~50 gig is huge, but T-mobil has 50 gig caps now. So, I could see most people getting by with 500 gig / month for home internet connections. Which is going to put a lot of pressure on ISP's to improve.

I'm genuinely hoping that it puts ISPs in a bad position to have no dominance in the market.

I've been under a "provider" who caps out at 10Mbps with, sadly, about 40% uptime with our neighborhood for about 5 years (constant outages. On a first name/you've got my phone number basis with the contracted technician, as is quite a few people in the neighborhood). I joined the board to get out of it. We're due to get out of it at the end of March, but Spectrum has zero interest of coming in and servicing people. CenturyLink said they'd be willing... but want a 5-7 year contract and everyone in the neighborhood is understandably against that idea.

So yes, bring on the time when mobile bandwidth is such that low caps aren't "needed" and the speed is high enough to get rid of ISPs as an option.

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#32

Post by kalleboo »

lolive wrote: post #21

I wonder what kind of technologies are behind 3G, 4G and 5G. From a consumer perspective, upgrading the number means "the same, simply better and faster". (just like an iphone :) The truth is probably more complex than that. From my experience, 4G was much more reliable that 3G has ever been. May be the service providers have improved. But I have the feeling that 4G is a fundamentally different technology from 3G. In…

The "G" terms are all marketing, but generally...

1G was analog.

2G is networks originally designed primarily for calls: technologies include GSM (with GPRS+EDGE added for packet data), CDMA 1x or iDEN

3G is networks evolved for decent data speeds: technologies being UMTS (later upgraded with HSPA) or CDMA EV-DO

4G is embracing a data-only network: the technology being LTE (although some US carriers brand HSPA as "4G" to compete with WiMAX which was branding itself as 4G while having HSPA-like speeds)

5G is still kinda up in the air, but the focus (aside from faster speeds and lower latency) seems to be on more pervasive connections (better roaming between network types) or low power/IoT stuff

All these definitions are contentious. Some people say the initial LTE deployments weren't real 4G, but only LTE-Advanced is, etc.

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#34

Post by zmb_ »

mdasen wrote: post #28
lolive wrote: post #21

I wonder what kind of technologies are behind 3G, 4G and 5G. From a consumer perspective, upgrading the number means "the same, simply better and faster". (just like an iphone :) The truth is probably more complex than that. From my experience, 4G was much more reliable that 3G has ever been. May be the service providers have improved. But I have the feeling that 4G is a fundamentally different technology from 3G. In…

3G technologies used CDMA while LTE uses OFDM so it is a different way of encoding. However, wireless carriers in the US have often increased their number of cell sites substantially - possibly doubling. The amount of spectrum that carriers have has increased substantially - again, more than doubling in some cases. Plus, with the rise of data, consumers now have a way of testing the quality of their link (ie. a speed…

At least on the research side there has been work on GFDM (Generalized Frequency Division Multiplexing) as a possible modulation technique for 5G. I don't follow the standardization enough to know what are the chances of it making it into a standard.

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#35

Post by gene-h »

Frankly I'm wondering if 5G will ever take off. One problem with 5G is that it uses higher frequencies, which carry more bandwidth, but don't go through obstacles so well. So you need much more hotspots, which A is creating zoning nightmares and B is an expensive proposition. Really performance is similar to that of wifi. So the question is why not just use wifi? There's a bunch of wifi hardware already installed, we can assume in the future that more will be installed, and that wifi will continue to improve. Really the big problems with building a wifi based cellular network are incentives, software, and ISPs. We need a way to incentivize people to open up their routers so that strangers can use them and software so that the people using these routers aren't getting snooped on by the people who own the routers. Software and incentives aren't that hard to fix and could be an interesting startup opportunity. However, ISPs could quash any company that tries to do this.

[0]https://www.fastcompany.com/40468468/the-debate-over-neighbo...

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#36

Post by raesene9 »

fredley wrote: post #2

I'm not disputing 5G is faster, but was congestion taken into account for this test? 4G for me is noticeably slower than when I first got a 4G phone, primarily because the network has become more congested as it became the mainstream.

yeah they're 50Mbps seems awfully low, heck I can get 100Mbps on 4G and I live in a rural village in Scotland.

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#37

Post by kalleboo »

gene-h wrote: post #35

Frankly I'm wondering if 5G will ever take off. One problem with 5G is that it uses higher frequencies, which carry more bandwidth, but don't go through obstacles so well. So you need much more hotspots, which A is creating zoning nightmares and B is an expensive proposition. Really performance is similar to that of wifi. So the question is why not just use wifi? There's a bunch of wifi hardware already installed, we…

Because WiFi sucks.

If I'm riding a tram and leave WiFi on, the continuous connection and disconnection of networks (I pay for a WiFi service with a bunch of hotspots) makes my internet useless.

If it wasn't for iOS's restrictions on some types of data usage I would never turn on WiFi on my phone.

> we can assume in the future [...] that wifi will continue to improve

WiFi has gotten faster over the years but none of the fundamental problems have been solved. Heck, WiFi routers still hijack your DNS and HTTP connections just to show a ToS or let you log in! Why is this not an adopted part of the standard?

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#38

Post by DenisM »

nfriedly wrote: post #23

Faster speed is great, but what about bumping the data caps? I was able to hit ~70mb/s over 4G several years ago (in ideal conditions). That's enough to burn through most bandwidth caps in a couple of minutes! Even most "unlimited" plans still throttle you after some point.

T-Mobile has 50gb throttle limit that’s only enforced during congestion.

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#39

Post by Nokinside »

gene-h wrote: post #35

Frankly I'm wondering if 5G will ever take off. One problem with 5G is that it uses higher frequencies, which carry more bandwidth, but don't go through obstacles so well. So you need much more hotspots, which A is creating zoning nightmares and B is an expensive proposition. Really performance is similar to that of wifi. So the question is why not just use wifi? There's a bunch of wifi hardware already installed, we…

> So the question is why not just use wifi?

5G is designed to use wifi when available. It's more than just new cellular radio interface and antennas. 5G connection can use 5G/LTE/WiFi simultaneously. Gibabit LTE can be used as an anchor for 5G functionality even when 5G networks is not available.

I think many people underestimate the ambition of 5G and assume that 5G is just 4G with vastly bandwidth.

Re: Real world 4G vs. 5G test shows 14x bandwidth increase

#40

Post by nfriedly »

DenisM wrote: post #38
nfriedly wrote: post #23

Faster speed is great, but what about bumping the data caps? I was able to hit ~70mb/s over 4G several years ago (in ideal conditions). That's enough to burn through most bandwidth caps in a couple of minutes! Even most "unlimited" plans still throttle you after some point.

T-Mobile has 50gb throttle limit that’s only enforced during congestion.

Well, that's an improvement. I liked T-Mobile when I lived where they had coverage.
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