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After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

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Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#71

Post by IntronExon »

meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

It’s worth noting that like Jesus, MLK was murdered by said enemies. Maybe they were still right to love them, but maybe Malcom X was right.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#72

Post by gusfoo »

econnors wrote: post #13
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

There's a difference between engaging with people who have different viewpoints and being friends with them. I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person. Same for "loving your enemies". MLK is advocating for peaceful protest here, not saying that you should excuse and forget your enemy's actions. I'm not sure I agree with any argument made in favor of being friends with white supremacists. Defend t…

> I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person.

That's odd. May I ask how old you are, and what culture/country you're from?

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#73

Post by drewbuschhorn »

econnors wrote: post #13
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

There's a difference between engaging with people who have different viewpoints and being friends with them. I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person. Same for "loving your enemies". MLK is advocating for peaceful protest here, not saying that you should excuse and forget your enemy's actions. I'm not sure I agree with any argument made in favor of being friends with white supremacists. Defend t…

Since you only seen to be getting "disagrees" I want to say I agree with you. Obviously no friend is going to be without fault, but also there has to be a line where you say "no, given this, we can't be friends." White supremacy is certainly one of those lines for me.

I could associate with terrible people for work or to try and get them to be less terrible, but I couldn't be friends with them.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#74

Post by scarface74 »

sushid wrote: post #70
scarface74 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge difference in my mind of being friends with someone who doesn't share your political views and someone who actively belittles a group of people because of race, sex, etc. I treat anyone in my family with a "long handled spoon" whose whole topic of conversation is about "those White folks" don't want to see "us" get ahead, and "they" are all alike or "them foreigners" are taking all of our jobs. I don'…

It's fair for you to say that you don't need that negativity in your life, but remember that your family members may have experienced racism in a different era even if they're only a few decades older than you. You'd be surprised how different your day to day life as a minority would be in a different socioeconomic ladder, city, or industry. I spent my first first two years in the States bullied and called various et…

Makes sense. But let's take that a step further. I was just talking about this in another thread on HN. How much racism is a proxy for just overall resentment?

I think my parents' families serve as a perfect case study. My parents who are now in their 70s and have been married 50 years were high school sweet hearts. They both grew up and went to school together in the segregated South and both of their parents were poor but they did scrape by.

All of my parents siblings went to the same segregated school. My mom and her four siblings all graduated from some type of post secondary school - teachers, nurses, and one that owns his own car repair business. Out of my dad's siblings, he was the only one to graduate from high school or college. One side, all of them beat the odds and experienced upward mobility and the other side for the most part didn't.

So which side of the family do you think I'm referring to when I say I have to deal with some of them with a long handled spoon?

My parents and more so my grandparents dealt with the brunt of the Jim Crow South. But my parents made sure that they balanced making me aware of our history without allowing me to use that as an excuse or be resentful. Of course they didn't tell me any of this while I was going to a predominantly White private school....

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#75

Post by harrumph »

This is about treating someone who advocates genocide as if they were merely holding an opinion rather than promoting a prescription for murderous mass action.

I don't think this is about someone befriending someone else who merely has a different, detestable point of view. This is palpably worse.

This is about befriending someone who advocates for withholding the right to live -- in a sense, for taking away the right of millions to have any point of view. I think that's a big difference.

I'm saddened to learn that she was Aaron Swartz's romantic interest. And I'm saddened that no comments here seem to have noticed that this is simply not about a mere disagreement.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#76

Post by drewbuschhorn »

mc32 wrote: post #51
zerb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. 2016 is evidence of what happens when you don't listen to people you disagree with. Lower class whites are disproportionally-likely to have "deplorable" views. Yet even as we as a society move to bring education to more and more people, still this demographic has become the last remaining group of people that it's "OK" to hate. So they've reacted. Disclaimers: Obviously, not everyone who's a lower-income w…

It's also worth noting that not one race has a monopoly on racism. Racism exists amongst many groups. Older Koreans hold some pretty odious views about Japanese. Newer generations don't hold the same views, normally, but some do. Same in the US, if you walk through or work in low income neighborhoods you'll hear racist point of views pretty often as well as anti lgbt comments. But often it's only the lower class whit…

Are sure you don't just hear about lower class white racism more because they're more numerous than older Korean(-Americans)? That seems like mostly a scaling issue to me.

It's sort of like how people say "well, some African Americans are racists too." Well, yeah but 90% of CEOs are white, so if they're racist against you, you're in more trouble on average than if the other 10% discriminate against you.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#77

Post by nitwit005 »

zerb wrote: post #14
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

Certainly. 2016 is evidence of what happens when you don't listen to people you disagree with. Lower class whites are disproportionally-likely to have "deplorable" views. Yet even as we as a society move to bring education to more and more people, still this demographic has become the last remaining group of people that it's "OK" to hate. So they've reacted. Disclaimers: Obviously, not everyone who's a lower-income w…

The reason people were surprised is because they did listen to the voters.

Look at all the conservative religious voters voted for Trump, despite him being nothing like what they describe as an ideal candidate, and often believing he's been unfaithful to his wife or lying about his religious beliefs.

People often don't know what they want, or have reasons to lie about it. Talking to people about what they want is often ineffective.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#78

Post by jancsika »

> Some of my friend are terrible people, & also my friends.

That's a really big deal. And for most people, that situation is a) unfortunate, b) unwelcome, and c) confusing in the extreme. People talk a lot with close friends about such a situation just to get a handle on it, to remain honest about the affection they feel while refraining from apologizing for the terrible person's behavior. It's usually painful to come to terms with it. Especially if the terrible person still acts unapologetically to hurt other people.

No one I know tweets casually about something like that, much less humble brags about the terrible person friends they've collected.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#79

Post by vr46 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

I also think it's inherently silly to believe you can't be friends with people you disagree with. Some of the more lasting memories in my life came from conversations I've had with people that I couldn't be further apart from in perspective and opinion, and some of them, I'd go so far as to say I was friends with.

Hmm. In the writer’s situation, it was somewhat more than an old pal with a habit of telling off-colour jokes. Friendship involves acceptance of the other person and their values on some level, and we’re talking about a Daily Stormer writer who promotes Nazi rallies and celebrates Timothy McVeigh. I’m sure Weev is an absolute charmer.

Engaging with people and being friends with them are different things.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#80

Post by convolvatron »

sushid wrote: post #70
scarface74 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge difference in my mind of being friends with someone who doesn't share your political views and someone who actively belittles a group of people because of race, sex, etc. I treat anyone in my family with a "long handled spoon" whose whole topic of conversation is about "those White folks" don't want to see "us" get ahead, and "they" are all alike or "them foreigners" are taking all of our jobs. I don'…

It's fair for you to say that you don't need that negativity in your life, but remember that your family members may have experienced racism in a different era even if they're only a few decades older than you. You'd be surprised how different your day to day life as a minority would be in a different socioeconomic ladder, city, or industry. I spent my first first two years in the States bullied and called various et…

or come back. it didn't take too many years between joking about illinois nazis and having one on the ballot.
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