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FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

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Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#141

Post by allemagne »

DanAndersen wrote: post #32

During my undergrad university days (at the University of Utah), I took some Mandarin classes. There was a local Confucius Institute which provided various free materials in Chinese to the campus library. The extent of my direct contact with them was receiving a couple hundred dollars for doing well in a Mandarin speech contest they held for my class. It was obvious that there was a certain propaganda aspect to this…

Are you sure you aren't being a little overly paranoid about these materials?

Not saying that there isn't necessarily any attempt at propaganda there, but it sounds like you're just saying that these resources didn't directly criticize the CCP. Seems to me like it would be a bigger deal if learning materials did start going into the negatives of a ruling government. It would be a little odd if French materials for learning English included a denunciation of the actions of the British Empire or the Bush Administration for example (even if the denunciation was deserved).

What kind of negative things would you expect a more even-handed textbook for learning Chinese to go into?

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#142

Post by ygaf »

thephyber wrote: post #99
noetic_techy wrote: post #88

And we continue to tolerate those who wouldn't tolerate us... Even the Chinese have a word for these people who naively defend and turn a blind eye to this sort of thing: "Baizou". From Wikipedia: "The word baizuo is, according to political scientist Zhang Chenchen, a Chinese word that ridicules Western "liberal elites". He further defined the word "baizuo" with the definition "People who only care about topics such…

> And we continue to tolerate those who wouldn't tolerate us... It's interesting that as an American, I can't tell if you are talking about the Chinese or the "liberal elite Americans" when you state this. That's a common talking point of the American right wing and could equally describe the position of any person who uses that Chinese term in seriousness. Also, the hypocrisy of a Chinese word criticizing westerners…

The hypocrisy of the Chinese having a word? Of westerners using a Chinese word?

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#143

Post by gowld »

labster wrote: post #123
jdavis703 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voice of America, and other media provided by the U.S. International Broadcasting Bureau provide a balanced perspective on the U.S. If there are anti-government situations going on, they cover it. Just take a look at the headlines about Trump on voanews.com vs. the headlines about Xi on xinhuanet.com.

> GOP Women Frustrated by Trump's Approach to Abuse Charges > 2018 Congressional Elections Loom as Referendum on Trump > House Panel Launches Probe into Trump Aide's Employment Amid Domestic Abuse Allegations Oh, wow, point taken. I always forget about VOA because the government doesn't promote it inside the United States. BBC and even NHK have a much higher profile than Voice of America does in America.

VOA isn't a complete shill for the Executive, but it's still a propaganda arm of the US Government.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#144

Post by vorg »

tptacek wrote: post #43
DanAndersen wrote: post #32

During my undergrad university days (at the University of Utah), I took some Mandarin classes. There was a local Confucius Institute which provided various free materials in Chinese to the campus library. The extent of my direct contact with them was receiving a couple hundred dollars for doing well in a Mandarin speech contest they held for my class. It was obvious that there was a certain propaganda aspect to this…

Why would you expect the Confucius Institute to provide information on the negatives of Chinese government? It's a Chinese culture organization, and it's directly affiliated with the government of China.

I didn't get the impression DanAndersen expected them to; he wrote "of course"...

> the reading materials provided of course didn't go into any potential negatives of the Beijing government

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#145

Post by gowld »

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #117
noetic_techy wrote: post #88

And we continue to tolerate those who wouldn't tolerate us... Even the Chinese have a word for these people who naively defend and turn a blind eye to this sort of thing: "Baizou". From Wikipedia: "The word baizuo is, according to political scientist Zhang Chenchen, a Chinese word that ridicules Western "liberal elites". He further defined the word "baizuo" with the definition "People who only care about topics such…

Sounds fake to me. Any actual Chinese to confirm this? Just going by the "they believe in the welfare state that “benefits only the idle and the free riders”" comment; China is a communist country , its about as far on the spectrum left past welfare state as you can go.

You can reach a higher level of understanding if you stop trying to cram multi-dimensional politics into a one-dimensional spectrum.

China is State Capitalist, not Communist. The government doesn't tell people what jobs to do and provide them with their home, food, and consumer goods

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#147

Post by ygaf »

jdtang13 wrote: post #134
Clubber wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a lot like it would come straight from right wing propaganda from the wording.

It does sound right-wing, but I think it's definitely possible to be left-wing and to want to avoid being a "baizuo". The biggest thing that caught my eye was about "pitying the rest of the world" and thinking that you are a "savior" -- definitely a valid criticism, I think.

The main thing is having a warped perspective.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#148

Post by gowld »

txsh wrote: post #72
PricelessValue wrote: post #48

Isn't this well known fact? It isn't a secret that the chinese, along with the israelis, russians, british, french, japanese, koreans, canadians and even the saudis have operatives in academia, government, business, etc. And of course we have operatives in all those countries as well.

Every country spies on every other country. But not every country steals foreign technology for its companies.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/30/news/airbus-germany-nsa-spyi...

"Airbus wants answers from Germany over U.S. spying claim"

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#149

Post by gowld »

geofft wrote: post #111
allthenews wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI is not warning about students, but about government agents posing ad students, I.E. "operatives". Here, they have access to learn and potentially influence our culture from within. Most importantly, if the FBI is correct and they exist, they most likely do not have your interests in mind. That said, I don't know how one would deal with this without causing McCarthy style hysteria and sweeping up innocent stud…

> The FBI is not warning about students, but about government agents posing ad students, I.E. "operatives". What is the distinction here? I do not generally expect international students on a student visa, with no intention of becoming citizens, to forget about the interests of their home country and prioritize the interests of the country they're visiting. They're here because the school is good, that's it.

Who cares about the "interests of a country"? People care about themselves, family, friends, and charity cases.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#150

Post by tptacek »

jdavis703 wrote: post #62
tptacek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect the Confucius Institute to provide information on the negatives of Chinese government? It's a Chinese culture organization, and it's directly affiliated with the government of China.

Voice of America, and other media provided by the U.S. International Broadcasting Bureau provide a balanced perspective on the U.S. If there are anti-government situations going on, they cover it. Just take a look at the headlines about Trump on voanews.com vs. the headlines about Xi on xinhuanet.com.

I guess that's a valid point, but it's worth asking whether transparency is really a core value of Chinese political culture, the way it ostensibly is to ours. That doesn't make Chinese culture necessarily better or worse, ceteris paribus, but it would definitely influence the kinds of things a government-sponsored cultural agency would demonstrate.

I think my point is just: we might be asking for a lot from something as straightforward as a Chinese cultural agency.

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