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FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

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Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#11

Post by meri_dian »

Larrikin wrote: post #5

I'm not sure I understand the argument of the article. Yes my graduate classes have many Chinese students in them, but why exactly is it bad that they are furthering their education and doing research in the US? The biggest issue I see is that many of them want to live and work in the US after graduation, but basically have to leave it up to luck in the visa lottery system.

Huh? This article is talking about an FBI determination that China has installed operatives within US universities, not that all Chinese at US universities are operatives.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#12

Post by ucaetano »

Larrikin wrote: post #5

I'm not sure I understand the argument of the article. Yes my graduate classes have many Chinese students in them, but why exactly is it bad that they are furthering their education and doing research in the US? The biggest issue I see is that many of them want to live and work in the US after graduation, but basically have to leave it up to luck in the visa lottery system.

> Yes my graduate classes have many Chinese students in them

From the article:

> warned U.S. universities about Chinese intelligence operatives active on their campuses

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#13

Post by [deleted] »

Larrikin wrote: post #5

I'm not sure I understand the argument of the article. Yes my graduate classes have many Chinese students in them, but why exactly is it bad that they are furthering their education and doing research in the US? The biggest issue I see is that many of them want to live and work in the US after graduation, but basically have to leave it up to luck in the visa lottery system.

[deleted]

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#14

Post by [deleted] »

Larrikin wrote: post #5

I'm not sure I understand the argument of the article. Yes my graduate classes have many Chinese students in them, but why exactly is it bad that they are furthering their education and doing research in the US? The biggest issue I see is that many of them want to live and work in the US after graduation, but basically have to leave it up to luck in the visa lottery system.

[deleted]

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#15

Post by jobu »

monksy wrote: post #3

That being said, the Chinese do have a term called: shan zhai which deals with copyrighting/conferfiting. While I'm not endorcing it, it does have some cultural roots. The strange parts guy explained it some in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdKV6x13cz8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanzhai

"Historically, "shanzhai" is sometimes used as a metaphor to describe bandits who oppose and evade the corrupted authority to perform deeds they see as justified."

Seems to be a bit like the Robin Hood mythos in western culture.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#16

Post by nyolfen »

IntronExon wrote: post #9
Analemma_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you prefer them to state it, then? I mean, with the very next breath you admit that it's almost certainly true. You need to balance reasonable skepticism and dislike of three-letter agencies with the fact that they also do real work in addressing threats from other state actors. EDIT: If you want a take on this from a less law enforcement-y source, try https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/16/how-…

Maybe don’t state it? It’s their job to do something about it, not create diffuse bogeymen for ideologues to play with. What does telling us about a drop in an ocean do for us other than sow suspicion? Unless the danger is real and present, requiring public wariness and intervention, keep intelligence matters within the intelligence community. Edit: That article describes educational institutions run by the Chinese g…

the fbi is law enforcement. behaving as secret police is not a positive alternative.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#17

Post by allthenews »

Larrikin wrote: post #5

I'm not sure I understand the argument of the article. Yes my graduate classes have many Chinese students in them, but why exactly is it bad that they are furthering their education and doing research in the US? The biggest issue I see is that many of them want to live and work in the US after graduation, but basically have to leave it up to luck in the visa lottery system.

The FBI is not warning about students, but about government agents posing ad students, I.E. "operatives".

Here, they have access to learn and potentially influence our culture from within. Most importantly, if the FBI is correct and they exist, they most likely do not have your interests in mind.

That said, I don't know how one would deal with this without causing McCarthy style hysteria and sweeping up innocent students along with operatives.

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#19

Post by GuiA »

Reminds me of this story from last year:

But those [Chinese] students often bring to campus something else from home: the watchful eyes and occasionally heavy hand of the Chinese government, manifested through its ties to many of the 150-odd chapters of the Chinese Students and Scholars Associations.

The groups have worked in tandem with Beijing to promote a pro-Chinese agenda and tamp down anti-Chinese speech on Western campuses. At Columbia a decade ago, the club mobilized students to protest a presentation about human rights violations in China, urging them to “resolutely defend the honor and dignity of the Motherland.” At Duke, the group was accused of inciting a harassment campaign in 2008 against a Chinese student who tried to mediate between sides in a Tibet protest. More recently in Durham, England, the group acted at the behest of the Chinese government to censor comments at a forum on China-Hong Kong relations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/us/chinese-students-weste...

Also reminds me of this recent news, of Mercedes Benz made to apologize to China for posting a quote (in English) by the Dalai Lama on Instagram, a platform banned in China:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/07/mercedes-apologis...

EDIT: damn, downvotes are coming fast for this one. I wonder why :^)

Re: FBI Says Chinese Operatives Active at Scores of U.S. Universities

#20

Post by Analemma_ »

IntronExon wrote: post #9
Analemma_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you prefer them to state it, then? I mean, with the very next breath you admit that it's almost certainly true. You need to balance reasonable skepticism and dislike of three-letter agencies with the fact that they also do real work in addressing threats from other state actors. EDIT: If you want a take on this from a less law enforcement-y source, try https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/16/how-…

Maybe don’t state it? It’s their job to do something about it, not create diffuse bogeymen for ideologues to play with. What does telling us about a drop in an ocean do for us other than sow suspicion? Unless the danger is real and present, requiring public wariness and intervention, keep intelligence matters within the intelligence community. Edit: That article describes educational institutions run by the Chinese g…

> Maybe don’t state it? It’s their job to do something about it,

You're presenting a curious case here. You want the intelligence community to respond to threats from state actors, but without ever telling the public that's what they're doing? There are two problems with this:

1. Government transparency - I want to know what the FBI is up to. You are advocating more opacity in their operations, for uncertain gain.

2. What if "doing something about it" requires cooperation from the public? The specific issues under discussion is the Confucius Institutes being established at various universities, but these are not illegal and the FBI has no power to get rid of them, nor do I want them to have that power. All they can do is point out the threat and leave the ultimate decision to the university administrators.

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