What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe? • Hacker News Board

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#261

Post by aleph4 » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

I don't see this as a purely financial decision. A coffee shop here in Austin recent re-introduced Wifi after years of famously not having it. Presumably, this was because they were lacking the business from the laptop crowd.

Obviously, use common sense and courtesy. Don't take up a large table. Don't teleconference. Buy a something regularly if you plan to stay a while. Don't bring outside food in.

Having said that, I welcome coffee shops that choose not to have wifi. But frankly, I'm less likely to go to them.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#262

Post by grzm » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

greggarious wrote: post #257

Weird how HN is very libertarian and supportive of the idea business owners should be able to set rules in their business... until it interferes with them parking for 5 hours with a 3 dollar Americano.

> "Weird how HN is ..."

Please just leave generalizations like this out of conversation. HN is more than just the comments that catch your eye or those who choose to comment on a particular submission. You yourself choose to be a part of HN. Would you ascribe these same attributes to yourself? Or those that other commenters mention when they make similar generalizations? There are plenty of comments in the threads for this submission which indicate that there is no consensus around the topic.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#263

Post by craftyguy » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

Froyoh wrote: post #260

scarface74 wrote: post #160

I don't work in coffee shops - or drink coffee for that matter - but I do take long lunches at times at restaurants just to just take a break during the middle of the day and take my iPad and go through my RSS aggregator. There is something relaxing about the combination of being around other people and still not having to interact with them. I don't get it either. It's the same way about going to the gym. On one han…

> RSS aggregator Why do you still choose to use them today?

Because it's a standard that allows an effective way to curate and browse lists of articles without having to fully commit to a single walled garden service. My primary method of browsing HN, for example, is via the RSS feed.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#264

Post by craftyguy » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 5:50 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #170

scarface74 wrote: post #160

I don't work in coffee shops - or drink coffee for that matter - but I do take long lunches at times at restaurants just to just take a break during the middle of the day and take my iPad and go through my RSS aggregator. There is something relaxing about the combination of being around other people and still not having to interact with them. I don't get it either. It's the same way about going to the gym. On one han…

> There is something relaxing about the combination of being around other people and still not having to interact with them. I don't get it either. We are social animals. At least most of us. If you go for a few days with no interaction/seeing other human beings you'll go crazy.

> If you go for a few days with no interaction/seeing other human beings you'll go crazy.

I've done solo backpacking trips for more than 'a few days', and I did not go crazy. I think there's a difference between choosing isolation and being forced into it (the later probably contributes to insanity, not the former)

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#265

Post by pwthornton » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

protonimitate wrote: post #197

robotmay wrote: post #173

This is such a bizarre stance. "Finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please" would have me leave a venue immediately and never return. In the UK the concept of people taking up space in coffee shops and not spending enough is not limited to people on laptops. You're just as likely to see an entire crowd of teenagers with one drink between them, or a group of mothers with pushchairs hanging about for hour…

My question is how many cafes really make money off of people who come in and sit for an hour or two and order more than one drink. Don't most people just stop by, grab a cup, and then go on their way? I've never seen a cafe a-la 'friends' where people hangout and constantly buy things. In my experience the only people who DO hang out at cafes and order multiple items are those doing work for extended periods of time…

You are either young or have lived your life in a dystopian movie. :)

Friends and Frazier are accurate portrayals of how cafe culture used to be. People used to go to coffee shops for hours, drink coffee and other stuff and just shoot the breeze. It was pretty great, and in a lot of ways better than a bar. The one by me growing up had a big leather couch in front of a fireplace that we liked to sit at, and it was pretty great in the Ohio winters.

In the DC area we have a big Ethiopian community. Ethiopians are big into coffee and coffee shops. If you go to a Ethiopian coffee shop, it's still like that. Some of the higher-end coffee shops that have sprung up in the area are also like that. We live by one that we often go to as a family every Saturday morning and get coffee and breakfast and just chat.

I have found the chain coffee shops have been taken over more and more by people camping out on laptops. It probably also depends on how much your area has actually coworking spaces.

I have also found that if a place offers more of a true cafe menu, you'll find more people talking. If a place can be something where you would realistically get lunch and coffee, it's much more likely to be lively. And for me, I'd rather be in a lively place regardless if I were there for lunch or if I wanted to work on my laptop a bit.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#266

Post by pwthornton » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

vilhelm_s wrote: post #220

jonnycomputer wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh, gosh, how many hours have I spent just hanging out at cafes shooting the breeze?

But are you constantly buying things when doing so? If I meet up with a friend at a cafe, it seems we usually just buy some coffee when we get there and then sit there and chat without buying more.

People chatting may buy more food and drinks, but an important difference is that people on laptops often take up entire tables that can seat a bunch of people. It's not just how much someone buys but how much space they take up. There have been times when I was walking with someone to grab coffee and chat, and we passed up going to that place because all of the tables were taken by people alone on their laptops.

Some places have a policy that you can only use a laptop at the bar seating, which eliminates the issue of people on laptops taking up a ton of space.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#267

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

Froyoh wrote: post #260

scarface74 wrote: post #160

I don't work in coffee shops - or drink coffee for that matter - but I do take long lunches at times at restaurants just to just take a break during the middle of the day and take my iPad and go through my RSS aggregator. There is something relaxing about the combination of being around other people and still not having to interact with them. I don't get it either. It's the same way about going to the gym. On one han…

> RSS aggregator Why do you still choose to use them today?

What alternative is there to rapidly scan through sites that have interesting content?

For the most part, I use RSS to read HN. Every now and then I will go to the home page to see if there is something I missed that didn't gain enough traction to make it to the feed.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#268

Post by protonimitate » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

pwthornton wrote: post #265

protonimitate wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question is how many cafes really make money off of people who come in and sit for an hour or two and order more than one drink. Don't most people just stop by, grab a cup, and then go on their way? I've never seen a cafe a-la 'friends' where people hangout and constantly buy things. In my experience the only people who DO hang out at cafes and order multiple items are those doing work for extended periods of time…

You are either young or have lived your life in a dystopian movie. :) Friends and Frazier are accurate portrayals of how cafe culture used to be. People used to go to coffee shops for hours, drink coffee and other stuff and just shoot the breeze. It was pretty great, and in a lot of ways better than a bar. The one by me growing up had a big leather couch in front of a fireplace that we liked to sit at, and it was pre…

Interesting. I guess it must be a product of my age (born in '91). Thanks for the insight.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#269

Post by robotmay » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

illnewsthat wrote: post #258

robotmay wrote: post #173

This is such a bizarre stance. "Finish up what you’re doing and close the laptop, please" would have me leave a venue immediately and never return. In the UK the concept of people taking up space in coffee shops and not spending enough is not limited to people on laptops. You're just as likely to see an entire crowd of teenagers with one drink between them, or a group of mothers with pushchairs hanging about for hour…

What are you buying every 30-45 minutes?

Coffee, but there's obviously a limit as to how often you can do that ;)

I'll normally alternate coffee, soft-drinks, and snacks for a couple of hours, then bail out, grab lunch, and afterwards head to a different shop. It's not a hugely regular thing for me, as I mostly work from home, so I guess I can afford to spend a little more than the serial coffee shop dwellers.

Re: What to Do When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Cafe?

#270

Post by turc1656 » Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

The problem that gets touched upon by the article but never really explicitly stated is simple - these people are using a retail business as their office space. And they are doing so without a contract which guarantees the business owner any income. They are basically left running like a charity, in the hopes that these poachers will be gracious enough to throw enough money at them so they can stay afloat (which then requires them to produce food/drink, so it's worse/less than a charity). It doesn't matter if the cafe is mostly empty during a work day. They are taking advantage of the situation and the business. Many of the cafe owners want to create a certain environment, one of social interaction that is designed to be a pleasurable experience. I totally understand why they don't want to have zombies sitting there all day.

Why don't these people either work from home or one of these shared workspace places that have become popular in recent years? I presume they want to get out of the house but also don't want to pay what is surely a higher amount of money to get a shared space. The article mentions that it was $100 more than that one person spends regularly on their cafe budget. I find that hard to believe that it can be that cheap, but apparently it is based on a quick search I just did. But that extra $100 also comes with 1) a contract and 2) no food/drink.