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After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

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Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#51

Post by mc32 »

zerb wrote: post #14
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

Certainly. 2016 is evidence of what happens when you don't listen to people you disagree with. Lower class whites are disproportionally-likely to have "deplorable" views. Yet even as we as a society move to bring education to more and more people, still this demographic has become the last remaining group of people that it's "OK" to hate. So they've reacted. Disclaimers: Obviously, not everyone who's a lower-income w…

It's also worth noting that not one race has a monopoly on racism. Racism exists amongst many groups. Older Koreans hold some pretty odious views about Japanese. Newer generations don't hold the same views, normally, but some do. Same in the US, if you walk through or work in low income neighborhoods you'll hear racist point of views pretty often as well as anti lgbt comments. But often it's only the lower class whites who get called out.

Another observation is that we've created an environment where we condone hate on some people, even by progressives.

Basically the rule is, it's not okay to hate, unless its directed against the outgroup of society.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#52

Post by ghaff »

olympus wrote: post #35
dirtyhand wrote: post #20

The smart thing to do here is build a Twitter background check app and sell a subscription to the NYTimes.

This is a pretty good idea. Something that scans tweets and other publicly accessible social media for a list of known words and then compiles it into a report for potential employers would go gangbusters in the HR/hiring areas. It obviously couldn't get everything, but would be a big help for employers.

Sounds wonderful. /s An automated tool that disqualifies people from employment for something ill-advised they once wrote in college based on a naive algorithm.

ADDED: Of course, if you want to be an authentic disruptive Silicon Valley startup you'd offer both this service and a service for end users to expunge any online content that would be flagged by their employer service. Should be good for some fawning tech press writeups.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#53

Post by noisefridge »

meri_dian wrote: post #5
CPLX wrote: post #3

What were the actual racist and homophobic statements? Reading this article the actual offending things are absent and not linked to.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ny-times-quinn-norton-n...

Some context here on "fag" / "faggot"

In some cases Quinn seems to be bantering with her gay friends. Quinn is queer herself.

In other cases she is calling out some 4chan person, for unknown reasons since they deleted their account. Norton is using the common lingo on that site. Especially at the time, on 4chan, everyone was a fag. Being a "fag" on 4chan or certain IRC channels was a complex identity. It was acknowledgement of being a high school social outcast who got called a "fag", and also part of a community that's turned that hate inwards, and is merciless towards outsiders and even each other.

And yes, it's also a slur against gay people and it causes many people pain to read it.

These aspects of internet culture are hideous and awful. It's also the culture that Norton fell into, and grew out of. I suspect many people here are the same.

Where she is right now? Was she a good pick for the NYTimes?

She's complicated. In her personal life she can be very, very difficult to deal with, and her associations are questionable. (Like probably all of your favorite writers from other eras!)

But there isn't anyone else writing with her compassion and understanding about what's happening with young men online in odd technical corners of the internet. And her prescription, that compassion and understanding are the way out – some may find it naive, but I see no other plausible response to the rise of fascism in developed countries today.

I encourage everyone to read her works.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#54

Post by meri_dian »

noisefridge wrote: post #53
meri_dian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ny-times-quinn-norton-n...

Some context here on "fag" / "faggot" In some cases Quinn seems to be bantering with her gay friends. Quinn is queer herself. In other cases she is calling out some 4chan person, for unknown reasons since they deleted their account. Norton is using the common lingo on that site. Especially at the time, on 4chan, everyone was a fag. Being a "fag" on 4chan or certain IRC channels was a complex identity. It was acknowle…

Very well said. Can you link to some things she's written you'd recommend in particular?

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#55

Post by CPLX »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10
meri_dian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ny-times-quinn-norton-n...

This seems to me that she was mostly using words which are offensive, but frequently used outside of their intended meaning. Definitely language I wouldn't use myself. But for example, "that's gay" has been relatively often used as an insult/derogatory, inadvertently by people not intending to be homophobic. I'd definitely call out it's use today, but I'm not sure I'd hunt someone down and try to ruin their career ov…

Nobody has had their career ruined. She's just had a job offer at one of the most prestigious and influential sources of opinion writing change their mind about hiring her.

It seems to me poor and distasteful use of language is a pretty reasonable reason to not want someone in that position.

There are plenty of outlets for idiot 4chan style insults in the world, I'm not sure we really need people from that community holding one of the top positions in tech journalism and opinion writing.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#56

Post by mc32 »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #44
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if we force ourselves to be declared enemies of anyone who does not share our world view, then nobody will grow, and people will just get more entrenched in their bubbles. This reminds me of a podcast, incidentally "The Daily" produced by NYTimes, where a former white nationalist tells a quite fascinating story about how he completely changed his mind about the white nationalist movement after being regularly…

Let me add that listening to his story helped me understand that white nationalism, or any form of bigotry really, is mostly about identity and belonging to a group, often their own family who subscribe to the same ideals. By offering your friendship to such a person, you also offer an alternative. By declaring your friendship over because of your differences, you not only lose a friend, you also validate that other…

It's very sad that in today's climate people can't be associated with Louis Farrakhan or Steve Bannon for fear the outraged masses will make the implication to befriend such people means you submit to their particular theories of politics and other belief systems.

It's utterly juvenile and should be condemned by our thinkers and influencers.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#57

Post by zimpenfish »

azangru wrote: post #26
fred_is_fred wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop being an apologist. Based on what she's said in the past, she's a racist and a homophobe. It's not a total stretch to see that she's friends with Nazis because maybe she believes in what they are saying. Are any of you friends with Nazis? I can barely deal with my racist in-laws in Texas, so I have no idea how you could be friends with a Nazi. Her words that she spoke back when she wasn't under the microscope ar…

> I can barely deal with my racist in-laws in Texas, so I have no idea how you could be friends with a Nazi Aren't there lots of interactions that people can have with each other besides discussing topics such as race, or nation, (or gender, or sexuality)? Why are people so willing to define themselves by their stance on any of these particular topics, to the point of being openly hostile to people with other positio…

> Why are people so willing to define themselves by their stance on any of these particular topics, to the point of being openly hostile to people with other positions on any of those subjects?

I can't speak for anyone else but for me, at pretty much the top of the privilege ladder, if I don't push back on the people who want to hurt others for their own gain, I'm just as bad as them. Which does make me openly hostile to racists, misogynists, homophobes, etc., yes but, I'm hopeful, also on the right side of history (and, yes, atoning for past sins when I was less understanding.)

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#58

Post by zimpenfish »

fhood wrote: post #50
tasty_freeze wrote: post #47

Post some inflammatory things on your twitter account and it can come back to bite you. But it is funny that it disqualifies her from writing opinion pieces for a newspaper, while other people tweet far more outrageous things nearly daily and can be President. I'm not sure why some people get teflon and others don't.

> I'm not sure why some people get teflon and others don't. In the unlikely case that that was not rhetorical, how much overlap do you think there is between the nytimes readership and Trump's base?

> how much overlap do you think there is between the nytimes readership and Trump's base?

More than you'd think, apparently, given their editorial stance that leans heavily towards normalising his supporters and actions.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#59

Post by sctb »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #11
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it's inherently silly to believe you can't be friends with people you disagree with. Some of the more lasting memories in my life came from conversations I've had with people that I couldn't be further apart from in perspective and opinion, and some of them, I'd go so far as to say I was friends with.

How many Nazis are you friends with? Could you be friends with someone who wants to murder "jew children" like weev? I sure hope not.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive inflammatory comments in this thread?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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