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After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

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Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#21

Post by ocdtrekkie »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #12
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to me that she was mostly using words which are offensive, but frequently used outside of their intended meaning. Definitely language I wouldn't use myself. But for example, "that's gay" has been relatively often used as an insult/derogatory, inadvertently by people not intending to be homophobic. I'd definitely call out it's use today, but I'm not sure I'd hunt someone down and try to ruin their career ov…

Edit: removed since apparaently it was a RT

Wasn't that was a retweet (the good ole-fashioned retweet, starting with "RT")? It looks like it was a retweet from John Barlow, the founder of the EFF.

And it was definitely sarcastic, in nature. If you remove the loaded language, it's a bit easier to parse, I think: "If a black man was meant to talk to our schoolchildren, God would've made one President. Oh, wait, he did."

Ergo, a black man was, indeed, meant to talk to our schoolchildren.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#22

Post by fred_is_fred »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #15
fred_is_fred wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Nazis are you friends with? Could you be friends with someone who wants to murder "jew children" like weev? I sure hope not.

I don't think I'm friends with anyone I'd call a Nazi or white supremacist, I don't follow everyone I've ever been friends with before, so couldn't tell you for sure noone I've been friends with isn't one today. I did have an annoyingly frustrating conversation yesterday with someone I had to work really hard to convince the footage from the Tesla in orbit wasn't shot in a studio. I'd call him a friend, I think. Defi…

Flat earther versus actively advocating for the murder of Jewish children is not even in the same ballpark.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#23

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #6
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

I also think it's inherently silly to believe you can't be friends with people you disagree with. Some of the more lasting memories in my life came from conversations I've had with people that I couldn't be further apart from in perspective and opinion, and some of them, I'd go so far as to say I was friends with.

Right, if we force ourselves to be declared enemies of anyone who does not share our world view, then nobody will grow, and people will just get more entrenched in their bubbles.

This reminds me of a podcast, incidentally "The Daily" produced by NYTimes, where a former white nationalist tells a quite fascinating story about how he completely changed his mind about the white nationalist movement after being regularly invited to dinners by his Jewish friend whom he met in college.

If anyone is interested, the episode can be found here: https://dfkfj8j276wwv.cloudfront.net/episodes/d7b8650b-3ef3-...

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#24

Post by berberous »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #8
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

Stop being an apologist. Based on what she's said in the past, she's a racist and a homophobe. It's not a total stretch to see that she's friends with Nazis because maybe she believes in what they are saying. Are any of you friends with Nazis? I can barely deal with my racist in-laws in Texas, so I have no idea how you could be friends with a Nazi. Her words that she spoke back when she wasn't under the microscope ar…

For those in this thread that think you can’t be friends with a racist, consider this story of a black guy who has convinced over 200 KKK members to give up their robes, simply by engaging them and being their friend: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-man-daryl-davis-b...

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#25

Post by meri_dian »

zerb wrote: post #14
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

Certainly. 2016 is evidence of what happens when you don't listen to people you disagree with. Lower class whites are disproportionally-likely to have "deplorable" views. Yet even as we as a society move to bring education to more and more people, still this demographic has become the last remaining group of people that it's "OK" to hate. So they've reacted. Disclaimers: Obviously, not everyone who's a lower-income w…

I believe it's important to put racism and hate in their contexts. Often times people are racist or discriminatory because they fear, either for their own way of life being eroded or because they don't understand the "other".

This does not mean those attitudes are good. Far from it. But we must try to empathize with all people. Which is much easier to do when, as MLK advocated, we love all people.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#26

Post by azangru »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #8
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

Stop being an apologist. Based on what she's said in the past, she's a racist and a homophobe. It's not a total stretch to see that she's friends with Nazis because maybe she believes in what they are saying. Are any of you friends with Nazis? I can barely deal with my racist in-laws in Texas, so I have no idea how you could be friends with a Nazi. Her words that she spoke back when she wasn't under the microscope ar…

> I can barely deal with my racist in-laws in Texas, so I have no idea how you could be friends with a Nazi

Aren't there lots of interactions that people can have with each other besides discussing topics such as race, or nation, (or gender, or sexuality)? Why are people so willing to define themselves by their stance on any of these particular topics, to the point of being openly hostile to people with other positions on any of those subjects?

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#27

Post by olympus »

What a load of b.s. Since she engages with communities known for hateful actions she must also be a hateful person and agree with all their thoughts? If you have to dig all the way back to 2013 to find someone using the word "fag" then that's not too bad. Nobody's perfect. Do we not allow for people's attitudes to change over time, or is using the word "fag" once enough to brand you a homophobe for life? Most gay men have used the word before. Or maybe, just maybe, we need to examine the context in which a word is used.

There's an old story about a dude named Jesus that hung out with the deplorables of his time, and it got him killed. Whether or not you believe it actually happened it's got a good moral, and that is: The people in power don't like the people who actually engage with the enemy, you might find that they are people too, or you might actually persuade them to fix their evil ways and then you can't hate them any more. They would rather sit in their ivory towers and do nothing. When someone actually talks with people to try and understand their mindset it makes those ivory tower dwellers look bad for not actually doing anything.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#28

Post by iambateman »

econnors wrote: post #13
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

There's a difference between engaging with people who have different viewpoints and being friends with them. I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person. Same for "loving your enemies". MLK is advocating for peaceful protest here, not saying that you should excuse and forget your enemy's actions. I'm not sure I agree with any argument made in favor of being friends with white supremacists. Defend t…

Friendship can’t be an unqualified endorsement of another person.

I have an alcoholic friend. Does that mean I believe alcoholism is healthy?

I have an anarchist friend. Do I call for the end of government?

I have a Muslim friend. Does that mean I abide by Sharia?

Of course not. If I must agree with every view a person holds in order to be friends with them, I shall sooner or later find I have but one friend - myself.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#29

Post by ghthor »

econnors wrote: post #13
meri_dian wrote: post #2

Something she had to say about herself... "For those of you honestly concerned. I don't support weev, that's not given in how I define friendship. I believe white folks should engage with the racists in their life … and I believe all people are redeemable, and "all people" is all people." That's an admirable perspective. She is clearly not racist or anything else herself. She is a casualty of the reactionary zeitgeis…

There's a difference between engaging with people who have different viewpoints and being friends with them. I consider friendship to be an endorsement of the other person. Same for "loving your enemies". MLK is advocating for peaceful protest here, not saying that you should excuse and forget your enemy's actions. I'm not sure I agree with any argument made in favor of being friends with white supremacists. Defend t…

If you want to have no idea what your enemy is doing, then by all means cut all types of communication with them. If you want to be caught unexpected by the actions of your enemy, then by all means pay no attention to them. If you want to be destroyed by your enemy, then by all means ignore and belittle them as there is no faster way to your own destruction.

The most efficient way to understand and predict the actions of your enemy then by befriending and walking among them.

Re: After Storm Over Tweets, The Times and a New Hire Part Ways

#30

Post by [deleted] »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10
meri_dian wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ny-times-quinn-norton-n...

This seems to me that she was mostly using words which are offensive, but frequently used outside of their intended meaning. Definitely language I wouldn't use myself. But for example, "that's gay" has been relatively often used as an insult/derogatory, inadvertently by people not intending to be homophobic. I'd definitely call out it's use today, but I'm not sure I'd hunt someone down and try to ruin their career ov…

[deleted]
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